Climate crisis may be increasing jet stream turbulence, study finds
Researchers say previous studies of the speed and location of the fastest part of the north Atlantic jet stream have found only small changes over time, although there are signs it is slowly shifting northward. Experts say the lack of dramatic alterations is because climate change produces competing effects at different altitudes.
The latest study, however, took a different approach. “Just because the speed isn’t changing, doesn’t mean the jet stream isn’t changing in other ways,” said Prof Paul Williams of the University of Reading, the lead author of the research. His study, published in the journal Nature, looked at the change in wind speed with height, known as vertical shear. “The higher up you go, the windier it gets,” he said. Using three different datasets based on satellite observations, the team say they identified a 15% increase in vertical shear between 1979 and 2017, consistent with what would be expected from climate change. The Guardian |
Originally Posted by PAXboy
(Post 10540204)
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I posted the article and quoted directly as I wanted to see if there was any real world experience reported here. It might be that some folk will say that they have noticed these effects, or, may now watch out for them. I considered the likely reaction before posting.
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I say bollox! would like to say more but bollox just about sums up this climate horse ****e. |
Originally Posted by qwertyuiop
(Post 10540368)
I say bollox! would like to say more but bollox just about sums up this climate horse ****e. |
I started flying across the pond in 96, the difference i see between now and then is that the jets tend to be snake like rather than an arc. Thus, you cross more areas of different wind conditions therefore more turbulence. As to the cause of the changing jets, I blame airline management. |
It might be that some folk will say that they have noticed these effects, or, may now watch out for them. |
Originally Posted by gearhorn
(Post 10540297)
So the addition of 0.01% of CO2 to the atmosphere causes a 15% increase in vertical shear? Is there anything that CO2 cannot do?
dg |
Originally Posted by oceancrosser
(Post 10540351)
How did they figure out that consistency? |
Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
(Post 10540547)
Noticable??????? 0.0004% - or whatever it is - of the earths atmosphere... FFS! :ugh:
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This just goes to prove that "climate change" is a big scam. Sure it's happening but man doesn't stand a snowball's hope in hell of doing much about it, although the arrogant fraudsters are trying to scam the masses into believing that they can.
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‘In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, while in practice there is’ -Benjamin Brewster 1882 What is relevant is that in practice, governments ever aware of new sources of revenue are realising that "carbon budgets" could well be nice little earners. |
I like to compare climate change with fire insurance - most people have fire insurance on their house because they *really* don't think it's going to burn down. BUT, the financial risk is so great you can't afford to chance it and the cost of insurance isn't that great. Same with climate change - most of the world's scientists say there's something to worry about, so I say let's take out some insurance. Maybe it's a waste of money - but the consequences if the scientists are right are pretty dire, so it's worth insuring against it.
But unfortunately climate change deniers are not rational.... |
Originally Posted by bill2b
(Post 10540715)
This is your opinion and "Most of the worlds scientists" is something you have just spouted off the top of your head and cannot even hope to prove and then of course you had to get the nasty little dig in at the end eh?
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Climate has never been a stable entity since day 1. Climate has changed constantly over the centuries and did so long before man could be held accountable for those changes. So forgive me if I remain unconvinced that we, the human race are the catalysts.
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There is no denying that man in the modern era has contributed to CO2 emissions which have heated up the earth, and most scientists agree on this point.
What they all can't agree on is to say it's the sole reason for climate change, and unfortunately too many people have run with it and made what they want out of it. |
Originally Posted by Hotel Tango
(Post 10540764)
Climate has never been a stable entity since day 1. Climate has changed constantly over the centuries and did so long before man could be held accountable for those changes. So forgive me if I remain unconvinced that we, the human race are the catalysts.
There is the IPCC reports are the result of collaboration between scientists around the world. The worlds peak science bodies agree with it. I have read some of them and they make sense to me to my ability to understand it. https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/syr/ The scientist doubters are a rag tag bunch that are slowly dying out. Much as those who never accepted relativity died off. Climate science is taught in Universities around the globe that is consistent with the IPCC reports. |
Originally Posted by qwertyuiop
(Post 10540368)
I say bollox! would like to say more but bollox just about sums up this climate horse ****e. http://www.iata.org/events/Documents...ate-change.pdf Sincerely. |
RickNRoll, you believe what you want to mate, it's your right. Scientists have also been known to change their minds as time goes by. There's plenty of evidence of that too. I'll stick to my personal deduction: "climate changes and always will no matter what".
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First it was global warming. Then it’s was climate change. And now it’s a climate crisis? Spare me. |
How about we just stuck to what we're good at, such as driving planes? :ok: |
Originally Posted by Hotel Tango
(Post 10540844)
RickNRoll, you believe what you want to mate, it's your right. Scientists have also been known to change their minds as time goes by. There's plenty of evidence of that too.
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I'd just like to know why those flogging the global warming message (eg Al Gore, Leonardo DiCaprio) have no concern for their own carbon footprint, just had Al in Oz preaching the message and travelling in his private jet, as does Leonardo, Europe to the US in a private jet to collect a prize for his global warming work. And you wonder why some in the populace are sceptical about the message they broadcast.
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Originally Posted by Hotel Tango
(Post 10540844)
RickNRoll, you believe what you want to mate, it's your right. Scientists have also been known to change their minds as time goes by. There's plenty of evidence of that too. I'll stick to my personal deduction: "climate changes and always will no matter what".
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Originally Posted by megan
(Post 10540883)
I'd just like to know why those flogging the global warming message (eg Al Gore, Leonardo DiCaprio) have no concern for their own carbon footprint, just had Al in Oz preaching the message and travelling in his private jet, as does Leonardo, Europe to the US in a private jet to collect a prize for his global warming work. And you wonder why some in the populace are sceptical about the message they broadcast.
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Originally Posted by Hotel Tango
(Post 10540764)
Climate has never been a stable entity since day 1. Climate has changed constantly over the centuries and did so long before man could be held accountable for those changes. So forgive me if I remain unconvinced that we, the human race are the catalysts.
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Total non sense. If there is an orginazation thats needs to be put to death it's the IPCC and all their little troll followers that write stuff like that. Pretty soon they will say that flatulence and breathing are threats to climate. Enough is enough. Wake up people!
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Originally Posted by Timmy Tomkins
(Post 10540912)
The stats are out there; take a look. The graph of increasing global temps starts soon after WW2 and just climbs, more or less in a stright line. Before then there were fluctuations up & down for various reasons (sun spots etc) but in the ast 70 years it's only gone one way. Seems clear enough.
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Guys, don't waste your time trying to convert me, I won't change my mind on this very exaggerated issue! ;)
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Actually an interesting idea
Originally Posted by PAXboy
(Post 10540367)
I posted the article and quoted directly as I wanted to see if there was any real world experience reported here. It might be that some folk will say that they have noticed these effects, or, may now watch out for them. I considered the likely reaction before posting.
I a lot of respects I put more credibility into observed and measured impacts that the theory. 20driver |
I don't think that many here (including myself) have the technical background to discuss the physics of a very complex subject like climate change, but anybody around my neck of the woods can see the effects of climate change simply by walking to one of our nearby glaciers. They have retreated within human memory. Places that were covered with ice year-round when my parents went hiking are now ice free in summer. This is aside from other data, such as Seattle regularly setting temperature records.
Old panoramic photos show glacier retreat around Mt Ranier But on the other hand, the ice cream in my freezer is frozen and it still snows in the winter, so climate change is a hoax! |
Unless I missed it the old photos don’t have dates on them. Just the year.. Also for a proper comparison the new ones should be in that weedy 1930’s black and white as well.. The difference is fairly minimal. And as for the third one. I’ve seen changes like that on a days sking in April Which of course I went to on foot after my container ship ride to the continent |
Originally Posted by Hotel Tango
(Post 10540764)
Climate has never been a stable entity since day 1. Climate has changed constantly over the centuries and did so long before man could be held accountable for those changes.
But to paraphrase 777Nine, what a strange thing that this (sudden massive Arctic melt, whatever) is happening on a Gargantuan Scale just after the Industrial Revolution and an unprecedented population explosion. Mighty coincidental.
Originally Posted by SOPS
(Post 10540847)
First it was global warming. Then it’s was climate change. And now it’s a climate crisis? Spare me.
Water pilot makes an excellent point. Same stark evidence where I live -- a wide continent and an ocean away. When I first moved to these parts four decades ago, you could go up to the Mont Blanc glacier on the ancient cog railway and amble down to the thing. Since then they've had to build a freaking cable car from the station up there down to the glacier, then it kept retreating so now it's additional metal stairways every year. (Only the fittest survive the climb back up.) And they've conscientiously painted each year of the retreat on the bare rock. Pretty graphic. Again ---- funny old case of synchronicity that this should be happening just now in this era of truly massive consumption of fossil fuels. SUCH a coincidence. Anyway, to the thread topic, I haven't a clue, and whoever said probably none of us can speak with authority on this is certainly right. Though generally speaking, more energy in the system (extreme weather) would make more turbulence unsurprising, I suppose. What I've read is that the jet stream is generally weakening because what drives it is the stark interface between arctic and tropical air masses. When the Arctic was all frozen up, the air above it was Cold, collapsed in on itself. So the atmosphere (let's say troposphere) there was compact. Contrast this with the tropics, where the sun drives everything to tremendous heights. So there was always a slope downwards from equator to pole (Why else would wind want to blow north in the northern hemisphere, Coriolis notwithstanding)? Now, with rapidly heating poles (bare, radiation-absorbing rock instead of reflecting ice) you have the "ice-albedo positive feedback loop" that is the lifting upper limit of the polar troposphere and flattening the slope. The jet stream is weakening and starting to meander, like the stream from a garden hose with the water pressure radically reduced. So it meanders down south in eastern North America in winter and you have -40° in Chicago (and the climate-deniers say "See?!? What'd I tell ya!!") and then meanders north last month, bringing tropical air to Alert, a Canadian military base and the world's most northerly settlement. They had temperatures in the mid-20s celsius, whereas usually they're lucky to get much above 5° in July. That's what I've read, anyway. |
The latest study, however, took a different approach. “Just because the speed isn’t changing, doesn’t mean the jet stream isn’t changing in other ways,” said Prof Paul Williams of the University of Reading, the lead author of the research. What I've read is that the jet stream is generally weakening because what drives it is the stark interface between arctic and tropical air masses. So, which is it? |
@Timmy Tomkins
I have read quite a lot on this subject and listened to many interviews with scientists who specialise in climate and related areas. I can't recall any who say man made climate change is bollox |
When the next climate change/crisis summit is attended by people using virtual reality headsets only rather than a Gulfstream or Phenom I might just, possibly, start to listen to these clowns. Until then stop taking the ****.
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Evidence? What Evidence?
Originally Posted by CHfour
(Post 10541087)
Really? I think you need to read some more then. Here are 3 to get you started. Dr. Tim Ball, Dr. Patrick Michaels, Prof. Ivar Giaever. You won't see them on the mainstream media though as they're off message.
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Gosh, even stronger reaction than I expected! However, it doesn't matter what we think as the climate change - however driven - is upon us and the next 50 years will be interesting for our children and grandchildren.
The chances of changing the behaviour of mankind across the planet and reducing dependence on fossil fuels is Zero. As the fuel runs out, people will take that problem seriously but the climate change will have happened. Now back to this outpost of JetBlast :} |
Originally Posted by PAXboy
(Post 10541196)
The chances of changing the behaviour of mankind across the planet and reducing dependence on fossil fuels is Zero. As the fuel runs out, people will take that problem seriously but the climate change will have happened.
As you indicate, the fuel crisis is going to, once again raise its ugly head, fairly soon, as well. We've had a few years of smug confidence as a result of a large, short-term increase in production of tight oil (and gas) as a result of fracking and horizontal drilling. That's not going to last much longer. Those who doubt that should try a bit of research beginning with googling "depletion rate of fracked wells." |
Weather Constant
Weather changes constantly, and it will always be a topic of lively discussion. This thread is proof of that. Speaking of proof, it's about time for that evening cocktail.
Cheers, Grog |
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