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Women pilots told ‘terminate your pregnancy or employment’
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the article seems to suggest it is self employed contractors who are affected rather than traditional employees so I am not sure how this fits into employment law. Its interesting that the article states “Capt Evan Cullen told an Oireachtas Committee investigation into bogus self-employment that about half the pilots working in Irish-registered airlines were hired as self-employed contractors. He said all Irish-registered airlines were involved to some extent in employing workers as self-employed contractors with many global airlines, who were “not household names”, setting up companies and registering here to take advantage of Irish labour law. For the pilots there were implications for wages, sick pay, maternity cover and pensions, as well as collective bargaining and other rights.” Maybe the Irish need to start clamping down on this type of behaviour, especially the bogus self employment part. |
Originally Posted by Icanseeclearly
(Post 10502484)
Maybe the Irish need to start clamping down on this type of behaviour, especially the bogus self employment part. |
The point I was trying to make was they should be clamping down on the fact “global airlines, who were not household names, setting up companies here and registering here to take advantage of Irish labour law” Rather than the fact they are self employed, they are doing it because presumably the labour laws are more lax than elsewhere and the headline seems to confirm it. |
Uber tried it... Nevertheless airlines I know have kept these ladies on and benefitted as a result. |
What's this got to do with self-employed contractors? That's another issue altogether. Surely any problem of pregnant pilots who contnue to fly is a matter for that imfamously blind, deaf, insensible rubber-toothed poodle known as the IAA rather than employment law?
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Originally Posted by Icanseeclearly
(Post 10502484)
the article seems to suggest it is self employed contractors who are affected rather than traditional employees so I am not sure how this fits into employment law. |
I’d say that this would be a matter of anti-discrimination legislation rather than employment law as only a female worker can be affected. |
Originally Posted by Toolonginthisjob
(Post 10502875)
If these are self employed pilots. Ie, they employ themselves. Then presumably they’ll have to take themselves to court? |
Discrimination law does not apply to the self-employed. Nor does any other employment law. They can have their contracts terminated whenever the client wishes, given whatever notice period is specified in the contract. Which can be no notice, if that is what the contract says.
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Interesting. Back in the bad old days of absolute Consultant rule of appointments in the 60's a young specialist trainee (married, respectable), accidentally became pregnant,
When she told her Consultant, he said, "Well, my dear, you have two choices". When she asked what these were, he replied curtly, "Resign or have a termination". She had a termination. Brutal. Bad old days. One of my trainees had TWO children during her training which added a year to her normal five. She took two months off for each child. Pretty tough on her colleagues who had to cover, but hey... Mac |
The Irish government is taking a dim view of people being considered self employed, when they work solely for one employer. Apart from the disadvantages in terms of employment law from the viewpoint of the employee, the state looses out on tax revenue which might otherwise have been collected. This may be why that statement is being made at this time.
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Originally Posted by marchino61
(Post 10503071)
Discrimination law does not apply to the self-employed. Nor does any other employment law. 15 years or so ago a West Indian self employed plumber won a case against a housing management services company operating in Central London after he discovered that he wasn’t being given work in certain wealthy areas because the people who lived there ‘preferred to see a white face’ if a tradesman needed to come into their home. These things are notoriously difficult to prove but this guy was lucky enough to be contacted by someone who worked for the management company and told him what was going on. The case was brought under the Equalities Act (or probably the Race Relations Act as it was then) and it is believed that the guy received ‘substantial compensation’. |
Originally Posted by dr dre
(Post 10502405)
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Originally Posted by Mac the Knife
(Post 10503104)
When she asked what these were, he replied curtly, "Resign or have a termination". She had a termination. Brutal. Bad old days. Only last year a female musician was told to have a termination by her record label or they would drop her as they didn’t want to promote her new album if she was pregnant. |
Originally Posted by marchino61
(Post 10503071)
Discrimination law does not apply to the self-employed. Nor does any other employment law. They can have their contracts terminated whenever the client wishes, given whatever notice period is specified in the contract. Which can be no notice, if that is what the contract says.
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If the contract does not suit your circumstances, don't take it.....
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Originally Posted by Just a Grunt
(Post 10503781)
Um...no. Maybe in Timbuktu... BTW, I worked on a similar basis to Ryanair pilots for 15 years, so I know how easy it is to have your contract terminated by the client. And as you are trading as a limited company, you personally have no comebacks. That is why it is different from the case of the plumber. |
Claim made but seems he not able to provide real proof. For the sake of our own credibility, I seriously hope the union is not making stories up out of thin air. |
Isn´t it the case that the moment pregnancy is discovered, the lady in question is deemed medically unfit to fly ? I was told so by a german lady who had a baby and was deemed unfit by the AME. She had no issues, I understood that it is more or less to protect the child.
IF this is the case also in Ireland, the self employed will have a disadvantage. |
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