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PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Rumours & News (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news-13/)
-   -   Aer Lingus pax 'disembark' onto wings (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/621328-aer-lingus-pax-disembark-onto-wings.html)

b1lanc 9th May 2019 13:34
Aer Lingus pax 'disembark' onto wings
 
Granted, there was a return so uncertain what announcements might have occurred prior to landing but pax opened the over wing emergency exits and climbed onto wing after the pilot requested they 'disembark the aircraft quickly'. https://nypost.com/2019/05/09/plane-...gency-landing/

Herod 9th May 2019 14:03
Quite an understandable action. How long now before this thread starts the "taking baggage with them" discussion?

b1lanc 9th May 2019 14:07
Originally Posted by Herod (Post 10467234)
Quite an understandable action. How long now before this thread starts the "taking baggage with them" discussion?
I think you just opened the door:)

sixchannel 9th May 2019 14:10
Originally Posted by b1lanc (Post 10467206)
Granted, there was a return so uncertain what announcements might have occurred prior to landing but pax opened the over wing emergency exits and climbed onto wing after the pilot requested they 'disembark the aircraft quickly'. https://nypost.com/2019/05/09/plane-...gency-landing/
Reading the article I saw that an emergency exit was essentially 'blocked' by CC assisting a disabled passenger and preventing disembarking of the other pax (remember - the pax thought it was an emergency evac) so that was why the over wing exits were used.
The needs of the One outweighs the needs of the many?
If that had happened in the terrible Moscow crash fire, how many then would have survived?
Its a supremely difficult humanitarian dilemma.

sooty655 9th May 2019 14:20
Originally Posted by sixchannel (Post 10467243)
Reading the article I saw that an emergency exit was essentially 'blocked' by CC assisting a disabled passenger and preventing disembarking of the other pax (remember - the pax thought it was an emergency evac) so that was why the over wing exits were used.
The needs of the One outweighs the needs of the many?
If that had happened in the terrible Moscow crash fire, how many then would have survived?
Its a supremely difficult humanitarian dilemma.
Except that it wasn't a dilemma for the CC who (presumably) were fully aware it wasn't an evacuation.

sixchannel 9th May 2019 14:27
Originally Posted by sooty655 (Post 10467253)
Except that it wasn't a dilemma for the CC who (presumably) were fully aware it wasn't an evacuation.
Isnt it standard practise for disabled pax to be Last On, Last Off?
If so, why didn't that happen as it WASN'T an Emergency??
Just asking - no hidden agenda.

DaveReidUK 9th May 2019 14:30
Originally Posted by b1lanc (Post 10467206)
Granted, there was a return so uncertain what announcements might have occurred prior to landing but pax opened the over wing emergency exits and climbed onto wing after the pilot requested they 'disembark the aircraft quickly'. https://nypost.com/2019/05/09/plane-...gency-landing/
Expensive affair - not only the cost of repacking the overwing slides (which some pax used), but also the repairs to the E/E doors, which were damaged when ejected onto the wings/ground.

BluSdUp 9th May 2019 14:58
You either have an emergency evacuation or it is a normal disembarkation.
As this Cpt just found out.
A tricky one this one as once You go for a normal one and the stairs are attached the slides are disarmed.
On the A320 the overwing slides apparently are armed regardless.
Bad choice of wording leading to a bit of crowd control issues.
I learned something today.
Regards
Cpt B

CargoOne 9th May 2019 15:23
Originally Posted by b1lanc (Post 10467206)
Granted, there was a return so uncertain what announcements might have occurred prior to landing but pax opened the over wing emergency exits and climbed onto wing after the pilot requested they 'disembark the aircraft quickly'. https://nypost.com/2019/05/09/plane-...gency-landing/
Much more important question - did he took his baggage with him?
sorry could not resist...

Whatsitallabout 9th May 2019 15:24

Capt B - From my reading of the AAIU report, the Captain initiated the “Rapid Disembarkation” procedure which is an SOP in Aer Lingus which is, in effect, a halfway step between a full evacuation and normal disembarkation.

This captain seems to have followed the procedure prescribed by the airline and approved by the authority (IAA). Now, whether or not this procedure is adequate or not, is an entirely different question. From my reading, the crew handled the emergency well and may have been let down by an ambiguous procedure which led to confusion in the cabin.

ams6110 9th May 2019 15:39
Originally Posted by sixchannel (Post 10467268)
Isnt it standard practise for disabled pax to be Last On, Last Off?
If so, why didn't that happen as it WASN'T an Emergency??
Just asking - no hidden agenda.
Not from my recent experience, at least for boarding. "Passengers needing assistance" are always mentioned first or very early in the boarding call.

b1lanc 9th May 2019 16:39
Originally Posted by ams6110 (Post 10467333)
Not from my recent experience, at least for boarding. "Passengers needing assistance" are always mentioned first or very early in the boarding call.
First on, but almost always last off on US flights, at least with Delta. I don't think that last off is policy, just simply time it takes to get wheel chairs to the gate with correct staff (e.g. not airline staff). A lot of elderly and wheel chair folks on our flights Tuesday. Also, I believe that even if they are not in a wheel chair, but somewhat elderly, they don't want to get trampled. Lots of elderly frequent fliers these days.

b1lanc 9th May 2019 16:41
Originally Posted by Whatsitallabout (Post 10467321)

Capt B - From my reading of the AAIU report, the Captain initiated the “Rapid Disembarkation” procedure which is an SOP in Aer Lingus which is, in effect, a halfway step between a full evacuation and normal disembarkation.

This captain seems to have followed the procedure prescribed by the airline and approved by the authority (IAA). Now, whether or not this procedure is adequate or not, is an entirely different question. From my reading, the crew handled the emergency well and may have been let down by an ambiguous procedure which led to confusion in the cabin.
Rapid disembarkation and leave all baggage behind (which is what is alleged to have been the directions) leaves the word disembarkation somewhat fuzzy I think.

BluSdUp 9th May 2019 16:44
Assistance needed = First on - Last off as a standard.

Whatsitallabout:
Interesting procedure.
Perfect decision.
Plan/Sop not so perfect.
Standing by for amendment.
So, I learn more today.
Thanks W

CamilleInChicago7 9th May 2019 16:48
Humble SLF here. If the pilot issued an order to ‘disembark the aircraft quickly’, why would the cabin crew then block the aisle assisting a disabled passenger? To me, this does not make sense.
From the SLF point of view an emergency return to the airport had been carried out. I don’t know if the passengers knew the return was due to fumes in the cockpit or not but any emergency return is going to be cause for concern. Keep in mind that this is occurred soon after the fiery Russian crash where many passengers lost their lives because they could not get out. This has been all over the news. The passengers saw the plane surrounded by fire trucks and emergency vehicles which is a good thing but if they don’t know that, they may have concluded the situation was worse than they thought. To the average passenger I suspect ‘disembark the aircraft quickly’ = get out. If I had received this order and the aisle was blocked, I’m very sorry but I would have opened the window exit too and I am aware that an evacuation will inevitably result in some injuries.

SamYeager 9th May 2019 16:56
Originally Posted by Whatsitallabout (Post 10467321)
Capt B - From my reading of the AAIU report, the Captain initiated the “Rapid Disembarkation” procedure which is an SOP in Aer Lingus which is, in effect, a halfway step between a full evacuation and normal disembarkation.
What a pity nobody thought to explain the difference to the passengers in advance! Presumably Aer Lingus are now reviewing this part of SOP as a result of practical experience?

b1lanc 9th May 2019 17:05
Originally Posted by SamYeager (Post 10467380)
What a pity nobody thought to explain the difference to the passengers in advance! Presumably Aer Lingus are now reviewing this part of SOP as a result of practical experience?
I think there is a wide gap in interpretation possible full evac and normal disembark.

DaveReidUK 9th May 2019 17:41
Originally Posted by b1lanc (Post 10467367)
Rapid disembarkation and leave all baggage behind (which is what is alleged to have been the directions) leaves the word disembarkation somewhat fuzzy I think.
Particularly as the initial CC direction reportedly included the instruction to use the nearest exit, subsequently amended to "please exit the aircraft through the back doors and forward doors" once it was realised that the overwing exits had been opened.

jugofpropwash 9th May 2019 17:58
I'm thinking that seeing fire trucks plus having seen recently just how quickly a plane can burn up might well have contributed to the panic.

racedo 9th May 2019 18:20
Originally Posted by jugofpropwash (Post 10467428)
I'm thinking that seeing fire trucks plus having seen recently just how quickly a plane can burn up might well have contributed to the panic.
You did actually read the links, didn't you ?

The incident happened in November 2017 BTW.


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