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I would fly as a passenger on a B737 Max only if it was operated by an airline in which I had confidence in the operational and maintenance standards. British Airway, Qantas, Air New Zealand etc would be okay. Any third world operator, forget it.
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There is a strong chance something is not right with the Max 8. Grounding the plane is the best thing to do right now until more info comes out would be my one penny. I wouldn't step foot on one right now.
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Originally Posted by armchairpilot94116
(Post 10414352)
There is a strong chance something is not right with the Max 8. Grounding the plane is the best thing to do right now until more info comes out would be my one penny. I wouldn't step foot on one right now.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-et...-idUKKBN1QS2D2 The United States told international carriers on Monday that the Boeing 737 MAX 8 is airworthy as regulators scrutinize two fatal crashes of the new model of aircraft since October, but said it will mandate forthcoming “design changes” from Boeing by April. |
Originally Posted by Mike Flynn
(Post 10413424)
Sorry to disagree with you but this is a very old design that has been modified many times to the point where it no longer resembles the original but relies on its grandfather certification. Were the shoe on the other foot Boeing and the US would be crowing about Airbus failures. The Comet and Concorde were written of with a lot less fatalities. |
Originally Posted by MajorLemond
(Post 10414411)
Very fair statement, I guess when I mean new, I mean the latest generation 737, with it's associated latest generation avionics. Airliners haven't changed much really in the last 30 odd years with the exception of more efficient engines and systems.
I trace the rot in Boeing back to the MDC merger. The engineering-led approach, seen in the 777 and even the 737NG, has been lost in favour of marketing and accounting. The old MDC way of doing as little as possible, as cheaply as possible to make the pass-grade. Which is exactly how McDonnell ran Douglas into the ground, too, after that merger. |
BBC News reporting that the UK CAA has suspended 737 Max operations.
"The UK Civil Aviation Authority has been closely monitoring the situation, however, as we do not currently have sufficient information from the flight data recorder we have, as a precautionary measure, issued instructions to stop any commercial passenger flights from any operator arriving, departing or overflying UK airspace. The UK Civil Aviation Authority's safety directive will be in place until further notice. We remain in close contact with the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) and industry regulators globally." |
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 10414983)
BBC News reporting that the UK CAA has suspended 737 Max operations.
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CAA document here..... https://www.caa.co.uk/News/Boeing-73...fr3e-2kOkuJ7OU
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Originally Posted by SteinarN
(Post 10415009)
This must have a significant impact at Norwegian. Doesn't they fly transatlantic from UK (airspace) with some of their Maxes?
LOT, Air Canada and (occasionally) Icelandair also operate the Max 8 into LHR. |
Westjet also have operated the 737Max into Gatwick (C-GXAX).
The ban would, I imagine, have a significant impact on LOT . SP-LVA, LVB, LVC & LVD are virtually daily visitors to LHR. SP-LVC was the morning flight from Warsaw today, presumably just beating the CAA announcement. |
I see on Dublin airport website that Norwegian just cancelled a 14.55 and 15.20 (dont know if it is central european or Greenwich time though) departure with the Max to Providence/Boston and New York
This must hurt Norwegian to a considerable degree. |
2 Turkish flights from Istanbul to Gatwick and Birmingham have just done an about turn at approximately their half way point.
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It's interesting to watch FlightRadar24 at the moment.
TK1997 from Istanbul to Gatwick has just turned around over the Czech Republic. TK1969 from Istanbul to Birmingham looks like it's changing route too. Meanwhile DY4545 (Stockholm to Tel Aviv) has just turned around over Romania - have they been tipped off about another imminent airspace ban, or is this to avoid a future scheduling risk? Two TUI aircraft inbound to Manchester at the moment. |
Germany also has just closed the airspace for the Max 8
skadi |
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I am waiting for EASA to anounce a closure of its airspace for the Max.
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Originally Posted by derjodel
(Post 10413774)
Interesting, while the regulators are sleeping, the market is moving. I predict that even if the regulators don't ground it, the dominos will continue rolling and we'll se more and more suspensions until almost all operators suspend flights, at least until the fdr/cvr are read.
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Civil Aviation Authority SAFETY AND OPERATIONAL DIRECTIVE: SD-2019-001.
Boeing 737-8 “MAX” and Boeing 737-9 “MAX” Limitation of Operations due to a Fatal Accident in Ethiopia on 10 March 2019 This SD is made in the interests of safety of operation and to protect the public following the accident of an Ethiopian Airlines Boeing Model 737-8 “MAX” aircraft on 10 March 2019. External reports are drawing similarities between this accident and Lion Air flight 610 on 29 October 2018 involving the same type of aircraft. Given the similarity of the two accidents, it has been decided that as a precautionary measure that all Boeing 737-8 “MAX” and Boeing 737-9 “MAX” operations in the United Kingdom, whether by UK AOC holders or foreign AOC holders and carriers, should stop until appropriate safeguards are in place. |
Irish Aviation Authority suspends operation of Boeing 737 MAX planes in Irish airspace https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/aviation-authority-suspends-operation-of-boeing-737-max-planes-in-irish-airspace-910408.html JAS |
Last TUI Airways B38M (BY2235 from Alicante;G-TUMB) in the UK airspace has just landed in Manchester.
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https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...faa-grounding/
When is the FAA going to wake up and see there is a problem causing deep suspicion of the aircraft. There is a definite cause for concern with the Max that is undeniable. |
Germany's minister for transportation and digital infrastructure (yes, i know, weird combination) blocks the 738M from german airspace.
See this tweet (german) from the official twitter account of that department. |
Turkish Airlines to ground their 12 MAXs. New user, can't post a link, just see the tweet by @yhyustun (SVP, press relations)
About TK’ operations with B737 MAX type aircrafts Turkish Airlines has stopped its operations that conducted with 12 B737 MAX type passenger aircrafts located in its fleet, until further notice. Concerning decision will start to be applied as from 13rd March 2019. |
Originally Posted by SteinarN
(Post 10415163)
I am waiting for EASA to anounce a closure of its airspace for the Max.
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How many airlines did what American and Southwest did? I understand that both of those airlines have an installed option (why it's an 'option' I have no idea, I'll let wiser heads reflect on that) that gives the pilots AoA displays. Given that AoA signal appears to figure in this back up system's operation, seems a smart move to me. What puzzles me is why any airline would not, but I am biased since I believe that pilots are supposed to fly aircraft, not guess at what an aircraft is doing.
When I look at this system from a systems perspective, it is a back up system whose intended function is to avoid a stall/accident. Fix one problem, raise another one. Nothing new under the sun. I saw an interesting observation here regarding the Brazilian Certifying authority. The Brazilian Certifying authority did, with Boeing's involvement, require MCAS training. What that training was would be interesting. I would assume somebody from GOL, a Max operator, would know what that was. If we find out we might know whether that type of training would have helped the Lion Air crew. Again, this is my bias showing since I do not believe that something that moves the flight controls should be hidden from, or a mystery to, the pilots. |
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 10415242)
You will have a long wait. EASA has no authority to close any nation's airspace. It could, however, suspend the Max's Type Certificate.
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
(Post 10415243)
I understand that both of those airlines have an installed option (why it's an 'option' I have no idea, I'll let wiser heads reflect on that) that gives the pilots AoA displays.
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derjodel, would you care to elaborate? That answer is at best incomplete. (SW flies only 73's but American flies a variety of models. I've a friend who flies A320s for American).
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
(Post 10415243)
How many airlines did what American and Southwest did? I understand that both of those airlines have an installed option (why it's an 'option' I have no idea, I'll let wiser heads reflect on that) that gives the pilots AoA displays. Given that AoA signal appears to figure in this back up system's operation, seems a smart move to me. What puzzles me is why any airline would not, but I am biased since I believe that pilots are supposed to fly aircraft, not guess at what an aircraft is doing.
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CAA bans 737 MAX 8 from UK airspace.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.b...-asia-47536502 this is an excellent move. A few days too late. |
Why? Other than all the experts on here no one yet knows what caused this. |
Airspace bans might be less associated with the aircraft - at least until there is more information on this accident, than in the confidence of the certification process. Considering what is currently known about Lion, Boeing’s proposals for modification, and the FAA position, then many National Authorities actions’ could be questioning their trust in the Max certification. Various posts have cited concerns, perhaps these have hardened. An interesting thread around these aspects is developing in Tech Log https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/6193...izer-trim.html #15 |
Aerolineas Argentinas has also grounded the MAX fleet yesterday, waiting for some explanations from Boeing.
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EASA has now suspended Max operations across Europe, effective 1900Z today.
https://www.easa.europa.eu/newsroom-...rations-europe |
Originally Posted by CAP A330
(Post 10415433)
murmurings that if airlines where told anything unofficially they would be grounding a/c.
The post to which you were replying was asking why the CAA had issued their ban. Given that EASA followed suit a few hours later, the reason for it is fairly obvious, though there may be an element of the CAA wishing to assert that it is capable of acting independently of EASA, as it will have to do post-Brexit. |
India is grounding the Max.
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Now Kuwait has banned its airspace for the Max, sorry, no link.
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Has anyone questioned the ridiculous speeds (380 knots at one stage) while this plane was struggling? Were the flaps retracted, if not how could the airframe have survived this onslaught (correct me if I'm wrong max speed flap 5 is 180 knots). If the flaps were retracted, wouldn't that be suicidal at 900 feet?
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