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-   -   Atlas Air 767 down/Texas (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/618723-atlas-air-767-down-texas.html)

Carbon Bootprint 27th Feb 2019 23:06

A Houston TV channel has released security camera video from a school in Anahuac which shows a brief glimpse of 5Y 3591 descending. It was taken from quite a distance away and it's not particularly good quality video, but enough to show the speed and angle with which it came down.

Capn Bloggs 27th Feb 2019 23:17

Gives me the shivers...

JH_CAMO 28th Feb 2019 00:34

Long time lurker of the forum, but this particular thread has struck a sad chord.

Just to alleviate the discussion on ADs, this aircraft was in full compliance as are all of the Atlas Air / Amazon aircraft.

I’ve been involved with this project for 3 years and have compiled the AD records for most of the Amazon aircraft, including this airframe.

Reference the splitting of the conversions between the Boeing BCF and the IAI SF, this occurred as IAI did not have approval for winglet aircraft.

A sad day and my heart goes out to the families, and the many good people at Atlas, RIP.

Airbubba 28th Feb 2019 01:25

From the Chambers County Sheriff's Office Facebook page:



Chambers County Sheriff Brian Hawthorne and Lt. Erik Kvarme had the honor this evening of transporting family members of the 3 pilots that were involved in the crash of flight 3591 to the crash site via the Sheriff’s Office airboats. Each family placed a wreath and flowers in the water in honor of their loved ones. Our thoughts and prayers are with families.



https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....9fa8ee852a.jpg

aterpster 28th Feb 2019 01:46


Originally Posted by JH_CAMO (Post 10402426)
Long time lurker of the forum, but this particular thread has struck a sad chord.

Just to alleviate the discussion on ADs, this aircraft was in full compliance as are all of the Atlas Air / Amazon aircraft.

I’ve been involved with this project for 3 years and have compiled the AD records for most of the Amazon aircraft, including this airframe.

Reference the splitting of the conversions between the Boeing BCF and the IAI SF, this occurred as IAI did not have approval for winglet aircraft.

A sad day and my heart goes out to the families, and the many good people at Atlas, RIP.

Thank you for your post!


thabo 28th Feb 2019 03:58


Originally Posted by JH_CAMO (Post 10402426)
Reference the splitting of the conversions between the Boeing BCF and the IAI SF, this occurred as IAI did not have approval for winglet aircraft.



I mentioned this because originally this aircraft was reported as having been a BDSF (Bedek Special Freighter) but it was in fact a BCF (Boeing Converted Freighter).

Iai only received their STC for 767-300 aircraft with winglets a couple years ago - about 7 years after receiving their regular 763 STC.



Originally Posted by JH_CAMO (Post 10402426)
A sad day and my heart goes out to the families, and the many good people at Atlas, RIP.

A sad day indeed

RIP

fdr 28th Feb 2019 07:20


Originally Posted by Zlinguy (Post 10400441)
Are you positive about the 767 having dual jacks? I'm pretty sure there's only one screwjack ( although there might be concentric load path redundancy in the event of a failure) with dual hydraulic motors/brakes. It's been a few years since I've flown it, though...

Correction:

Zlinguy, you are correct; I was wrong, the B767 has a single shaft with dual motors, controllers, and brakes. there is a single ballscrew actuator assembly, per Ch 27 IPC and AMM.

VGCM66 28th Feb 2019 20:20

Maybe a sudden load shift forward changing the center of gravity but already too low to compensate or counteract. Maybe...:sad:

thabo 28th Feb 2019 20:41


Originally Posted by VGCM66 (Post 10403251)
Maybe a sudden load shift forward changing the center of gravity but already too low to compensate or counteract. Maybe...:sad:

I wouldn't think that very likely unless it was carrying outsized cargo such as vehicles or engines. (Unlikely on 763 flying Amazon cargo).
In normal cargo operation there would be several pallets/containers and even severe turbulence should not be sufficient to rip out enough cargo locks to enable one of the pallets to move forward and affect the cg.
the w&b manual allows for operation with missing cargo locks and in such instances limitations on cargo loads will still ensure that pallets can not tear free under normal operating conditions.

The 747 crash a few years ago which was caused by military equipment moving used a layout where there were no pallets/containers in front or behind the vehicles to prevent then moving if they tore free.

@JH-CAMO - does atlas use pallets or containers on the 763?

seagull967 28th Feb 2019 23:02


Originally Posted by thabo (Post 10403267)
I wouldn't think that very likely unless it was carrying outsized cargo such as vehicles or engines. (Unlikely on 763 flying Amazon cargo).
In normal cargo operation there would be several pallets/containers and even severe turbulence should not be sufficient to rip out enough cargo locks to enable one of the pallets to move forward and affect the cg.
the w&b manual allows for operation with missing cargo locks and in such instances limitations on cargo loads will still ensure that pallets can not tear free under normal operating conditions.

The 747 crash a few years ago which was caused by military equipment moving used a layout where there were no pallets/containers in front or behind the vehicles to prevent then moving if they tore free.

@JH-CAMO - does atlas use pallets or containers on the 763?

While I agree in principle, the scenario would not be ripping out locks but rather not engaging locks to begin with. If there are a lot of empty positions the pallet can slide fairly easily It has occurred many times in the past.

Hotel Tango 28th Feb 2019 23:18


While I agree in principle, the scenario would not be ripping out locks but rather not engaging locks to begin with.
In that case they would already have had a serious problem on take-off!

seagull967 1st Mar 2019 00:04


Originally Posted by Hotel Tango (Post 10403396)
In that case they would already have had a serious problem on take-off!

Not necessarily. Depends on where the cans are, etc. Seen that one too!

DaveReidUK 1st Mar 2019 00:06


Originally Posted by Hotel Tango (Post 10403396)
In that case they would already have had a serious problem on take-off!

Not necessarily.

If, for example, the forwardmost ULD hadn't been securely locked down, but those behind had, then the problem wouldn't have been apparent on take-off, but on descent.

We're not talking about an accident like Bagram where the cargo moved aft.

Hotel Tango 1st Mar 2019 00:15

Yep, fair enough. But in that case, wouldn't the problem manifest itself earlier in the descent?

seagull967 1st Mar 2019 01:22


Originally Posted by Hotel Tango (Post 10403430)
Yep, fair enough. But in that case, wouldn't the problem manifest itself earlier in the descent?

Again, too many assumptions here. And again, the answer is "not necessarily". I should add that I view this as an EXTREMELY improbable factor in this accident!

tdracer 1st Mar 2019 02:21


Originally Posted by seagull967 (Post 10403468)
Again, too many assumptions here. And again, the answer is "not necessarily". I should add that I view this as an EXTREMELY improbable factor in this accident!

Given the hull loss rate of the 767 (~1 in 10 million departures), pretty much any cause is going to be in the 'very' to 'extremely' improbable range. That's why we never rule anything out until it's shown to be not relevant.


FIRESYSOK 1st Mar 2019 02:58


Originally Posted by tdracer (Post 10403492)
Given the hull loss rate of the 767 (~1 in 10 million departures), pretty much any cause is going to be in the 'very' to 'extremely' improbable range. That's why we never rule anything out until it's shown to be not relevant.

I don’t think the ‘extremely unlikely’ loss rate equates an improbable cause. Modern airliners rarely invent new ways to crash. Unlikely to happen, yes. An improbable cause, probably not.

Machinbird 1st Mar 2019 06:53

Military Accident-Possibly Similar
 
There was an accident in 1981 involving a military EC-135 that bears some resemblance to this B763 accident.
EC-135 loss of control


Jackw106 1st Mar 2019 07:55

Condolences to the families


Raffles S.A. 1st Mar 2019 18:32

He forgot Lauda Air Flight 004.


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