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-   -   Condor squawks 7700 mid Atlantic (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/618079-condor-squawks-7700-mid-atlantic.html)

Flyingmole 6th Feb 2019 21:21

Condor squawks 7700 mid Atlantic
 
FR24 showingCondor flight DE 2116 Frankfurt to Mexico squawked 7700 mid-Atlantic and staggered back to Shannon. No furthe info available as at 21.20 GMT.

safelife 6th Feb 2019 21:27

A330, operated by Thomas Cook UK.

Hotel Tango 6th Feb 2019 22:51

"staggered back" or simply diverted?

DaveReidUK 6th Feb 2019 22:54

Wouldn't sell as many newspapers. :O

flyfan 7th Feb 2019 07:57


Flyingmole 7th Feb 2019 08:27

Root cause?
 
Any aviation chaps out there have any ideas on what could cause enough smoke to convince the pilot to go 7700 and yet not leave any trace of ignition or combustion after landing? One presumes that an experienced pilot can distinguish between particulate smoke and vapour condensation.

ManaAdaSystem 7th Feb 2019 08:34


Originally Posted by Flyingmole (Post 10382639)
Any aviation chaps out there have any ideas on what could cause enough smoke to convince the pilot to go 7700 and yet not leave any trace of ignition or combustion after landing? One presumes that an experienced pilot can distinguish between particulate smoke and vapour condensation.

Contamination in the AC system, various fans that fails, pack issues, deicing fluid in the system and what else?
Smoke does not equal fire, but how do you know?
Water vapor disappears 20 cm after it comes out of the vents and doesn’t smell.

andrasz 7th Feb 2019 08:35


Originally Posted by Flyingmole (Post 10382639)
Any aviation chaps out there have any ideas on what could cause enough smoke to convince the pilot to go 7700 and yet not leave any trace of ignition or combustion after landing?

Plenty of electronics components will emit smoke as they fail, but once they burn out the symptoms will stop. Most of these failures will not result in any visible flames, and the failed component would only be evident after disassembly. The smell is a dead giveaway though...

wiggy 7th Feb 2019 08:42


Originally Posted by Flyingmole (Post 10382639)
Any aviation chaps out there have any ideas on what could cause enough smoke to convince the pilot to go 7700 and yet not leave any trace of ignition or combustion after landing? One presumes that an experienced pilot can distinguish between particulate smoke and vapour condensation.

Smoke, a suspicion of smoke, fumes or serious suspicion thereof, regardless of the route cause may lead to a crew actioning a generic checklist labelled “smoke, fire or fumes”...and potentially lead to a diversion

As others have now pointed out actioning a “smoke ...checklist” doesn’t automatically mean the crew were dealing with clouds of visible combustion products that will leave traces all over the flight deck.

rog747 7th Feb 2019 08:58

Almost 900 miles out in the Atlantic - Then takes 2 hours to get back to SNN - not nice at all when you are smelling burning...120 Mins of ETOPS would be quite enough for me.

763 jock 7th Feb 2019 09:58

What does it have to do with ETOPS?

ivor toolbox 7th Feb 2019 11:27


Originally Posted by rog747 (Post 10382678)
Almost 900 miles out in the Atlantic - Then takes 2 hours to get back to SNN - not nice at all when you are smelling burning...120 Mins of ETOPS would be quite enough for me.

Last time I checked, 120 mins = 2 hours, or don't they teach that in pilot school anymore.
And like above what has ETOPS got to do with it, that only comes in when there is need to shut down an engine.

Ttfn

Salina Chan 7th Feb 2019 12:45


Originally Posted by 763 jock (Post 10382748)
What does it have to do with ETOPS?

He is probably refering to the fact that ETOPS nowadays would allow you to be far further than "just" two hours away from any suitable landing strip with a sick bird on your hands. Something to ponder on a long night over the Pacific...

rog747 7th Feb 2019 12:54

Etops brain Fart
Do please excuse me it was 6am

meleagertoo 7th Feb 2019 15:02

ETOPS has plenty to do with it. If they weren't ETOPS they'd have been closer to a diversion and it would have taken much less time to get back to one.

wiggy 7th Feb 2019 15:44


Originally Posted by meleagertoo (Post 10383107)
ETOPS has plenty to do with it. If they weren't ETOPS they'd have been closer to a diversion and it would have taken much less time to get back to one.

So ETOPS or not (and the incident in question here is not an ETOPs issue) what’s your suggested bottom line in terms of maximum distance from an alternate?







Tay Cough 7th Feb 2019 16:27

So for those of us who fly non-ETOPS across the Atlantic, what happens to us? :E

(Clue: there's no requirement for me to fly the non-ETOPS route or be anywhere near an airfield)

763 jock 7th Feb 2019 16:32


Originally Posted by meleagertoo (Post 10383107)
ETOPS has plenty to do with it. If they weren't ETOPS they'd have been closer to a diversion and it would have taken much less time to get back to one.

What exactly has the number of engines got to do with this? The outcome would have been the same in a tri jet or a quad.

Are you suggesting that ETOPS is unsafe?

beardy 7th Feb 2019 17:14

I understood that ETOPs had become ERangeOPs, EROPs. Now applicable rules to all aircraft irrespective of number of engines.


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