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Condor squawks 7700 mid Atlantic

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Condor squawks 7700 mid Atlantic

Old 6th Feb 2019, 21:21
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Condor squawks 7700 mid Atlantic

FR24 showingCondor flight DE 2116 Frankfurt to Mexico squawked 7700 mid-Atlantic and staggered back to Shannon. No furthe info available as at 21.20 GMT.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 21:27
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A330, operated by Thomas Cook UK.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 22:51
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"staggered back" or simply diverted?
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 22:54
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Wouldn't sell as many newspapers.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 07:57
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 08:27
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Root cause?

Any aviation chaps out there have any ideas on what could cause enough smoke to convince the pilot to go 7700 and yet not leave any trace of ignition or combustion after landing? One presumes that an experienced pilot can distinguish between particulate smoke and vapour condensation.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 08:34
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Originally Posted by Flyingmole View Post
Any aviation chaps out there have any ideas on what could cause enough smoke to convince the pilot to go 7700 and yet not leave any trace of ignition or combustion after landing? One presumes that an experienced pilot can distinguish between particulate smoke and vapour condensation.
Contamination in the AC system, various fans that fails, pack issues, deicing fluid in the system and what else?
Smoke does not equal fire, but how do you know?
Water vapor disappears 20 cm after it comes out of the vents and doesn’t smell.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 08:35
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Originally Posted by Flyingmole View Post
Any aviation chaps out there have any ideas on what could cause enough smoke to convince the pilot to go 7700 and yet not leave any trace of ignition or combustion after landing?
Plenty of electronics components will emit smoke as they fail, but once they burn out the symptoms will stop. Most of these failures will not result in any visible flames, and the failed component would only be evident after disassembly. The smell is a dead giveaway though...
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 08:42
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Originally Posted by Flyingmole View Post
Any aviation chaps out there have any ideas on what could cause enough smoke to convince the pilot to go 7700 and yet not leave any trace of ignition or combustion after landing? One presumes that an experienced pilot can distinguish between particulate smoke and vapour condensation.
Smoke, a suspicion of smoke, fumes or serious suspicion thereof, regardless of the route cause may lead to a crew actioning a generic checklist labelled “smoke, fire or fumes”...and potentially lead to a diversion

As others have now pointed out actioning a “smoke ...checklist” doesn’t automatically mean the crew were dealing with clouds of visible combustion products that will leave traces all over the flight deck.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 08:58
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Almost 900 miles out in the Atlantic - Then takes 2 hours to get back to SNN - not nice at all when you are smelling burning...120 Mins of ETOPS would be quite enough for me.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 09:58
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What does it have to do with ETOPS?
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 11:27
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Originally Posted by rog747 View Post
Almost 900 miles out in the Atlantic - Then takes 2 hours to get back to SNN - not nice at all when you are smelling burning...120 Mins of ETOPS would be quite enough for me.
Last time I checked, 120 mins = 2 hours, or don't they teach that in pilot school anymore.
And like above what has ETOPS got to do with it, that only comes in when there is need to shut down an engine.

Ttfn

Last edited by ivor toolbox; 7th Feb 2019 at 11:44.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 12:45
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Originally Posted by 763 jock View Post
What does it have to do with ETOPS?
He is probably refering to the fact that ETOPS nowadays would allow you to be far further than "just" two hours away from any suitable landing strip with a sick bird on your hands. Something to ponder on a long night over the Pacific...
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 12:54
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Etops brain Fart
Do please excuse me it was 6am
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 15:02
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ETOPS has plenty to do with it. If they weren't ETOPS they'd have been closer to a diversion and it would have taken much less time to get back to one.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 15:44
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Originally Posted by meleagertoo View Post
ETOPS has plenty to do with it. If they weren't ETOPS they'd have been closer to a diversion and it would have taken much less time to get back to one.
So ETOPS or not (and the incident in question here is not an ETOPs issue) what’s your suggested bottom line in terms of maximum distance from an alternate?







Last edited by wiggy; 7th Feb 2019 at 16:10.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 16:27
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So for those of us who fly non-ETOPS across the Atlantic, what happens to us?

(Clue: there's no requirement for me to fly the non-ETOPS route or be anywhere near an airfield)
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 16:32
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Originally Posted by meleagertoo View Post
ETOPS has plenty to do with it. If they weren't ETOPS they'd have been closer to a diversion and it would have taken much less time to get back to one.
What exactly has the number of engines got to do with this? The outcome would have been the same in a tri jet or a quad.

Are you suggesting that ETOPS is unsafe?
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 17:14
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I understood that ETOPs had become ERangeOPs, EROPs. Now applicable rules to all aircraft irrespective of number of engines.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 20:34
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Long time ago, was riding one of our 76-3er from Europa to Vancouver. After the beautiful sights of "Green"land and a little chat with Thule we started to get light fumes in the cockpit, visible and smelled it. Wasn't too bad but almost 2 hours from our alternate Yellowknife it required some attention After some troubleshooting including killing the power to the galleys, our Purser had been informed and the 1st class gal came back with the info that there was a rattling noise under the galley floor at door 1R. In concert with ops we decided to switch the avionics cooling into override I believe. FA came back and reported the noise to be gone. We checked the galley and the floor, no smoke no heat and the fumes in the cockpit disappeared. We decided to continue to YYC but ready to divert to Yellowknife(they have a McDonalds there that provided dinner for another 76 of ours that diverted there because of an engine fire), or Edmonton further down the line if needed. We choose YYC not just because it was our destination but also the weather being VMC all the way down, unlike Yellowknife and Edmonton. We were aware that the avionics were cooled by diff pressure now and that at lower altitude it wouldn't work as well, resulting in possible loss of all our glass instruments etc. Briefed the arrival into YYC extensively and were prepared to fly the bird on the stby instr. After an uneventful descent/approach and enjoying the beautiful scenery the glass panels were starting to fade out and completely fail in the flare. They found the avionics fan bearing completely torn up, next day new fan and back home.(We bought the FA who brought our attention to the noise under the galley floor a nice little gift
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