Well, in many but not all places in the US, the pay IS right but will come with some affiliated considerations that might not suit everyone, e.g., going to the bottom of a seniority list, etc. Some expats have come back with success while others tried and failed. They can claim there's no age bias in their hiring but I just don't believe that despite seeing them trot out an example or two of some 50 y/o candidate. And experience ? Do they think you might just have a little too much experience to be trainable according to their notions of cultural fit ? They'll never admit that...

But more importantly, it's not as easy as just agreeing to come home to one of those positions with the good pay and career potential. The HR types (and that includes those with a license and medical in their pockets) have some notion of ignoring experience and technical competence in favor of something called a good "cultural" fit...you know, a proper employee. These 30 potential years of employment suitability are determined by 30 minutes across from an interview panel and some shrink-related testing.

They will (and currently do...even the lesser quality carriers) pass up untold numbers of experienced candidates here in the US and have constructed a gauntlet of hurdles to even getting an interview: career "expos" where you spend money and time just getting there to stand in lines for hours for the "opportunity" for a few minutes face to face with some recruiter, meet-the-chief-pilot events (same idea as expo but fewer numbers and much harder to get an invitation), video interviews, online application processes that stymie even the most astute applicant if not completely prevent his data from being submitted at all in the form allegedly demanded by the HR types. All this to just get an interview.

So, all of this mumbo-jumbo in lieu of hiring experienced aviators... proven entities...and then convincing them they made the right choice in accepting the job by not treating them like dirt once on the payroll thereby creating a suitable employee.

[and no, I'm not looking for a job nor is any job looking for me...I just observe]

It would be interesting to know the 2019 recruitment figures for european airlines……
EasyJet, Eurowings, Volotea, Ryanair, Lufthansa, BA, Air France, Wizzair, Vueling….

I did not come here to pick up a fight, as you will clearly see in the original post. The ratio seems to be 4:1. Given the difference in operating size, extent of which I was not completely aware of, that looks allright.

"Incidentally Ryanair has a perfect 30 year safety record."

I take it that you haven't followed RYR for very long or is your definition of safety simply not killing anyone?!

Lets be honest. You sound obnoxious as well. Rightly or wrongly the Captain is the Captain. If you respect the Captains which you fly with then pretty likely you'll soon be a Captain yourself..

Great that you take satisfaction in doing your job well. You do realise that a pilot's role is so much more than handling the aircraft, right? That's why we have the autopilot.

Whereas I got my CPL+MEP+IR and instead of flying students for the rest of my life I learned how to code. Now I fly and teach for fun and make way, way more than your TRE pilot in Silicon Valley.

Everyone on this forum that was able to learn how fly and operate large aircraft is more than intelligent enough to be able to learn how to code. If you get treated like crap at an airline, you go do something that pays better. It always helps to have a plan B.

If that pilot shortage really comes, I always have the option to join the airlines: if the price is right.

Poor bugger, he should have learnt to code.

It makes you wonder - 16 years as F/O??

In CPH/SAS it is 25+ years before LH Captain.

16 years is nothing if it is LH in a European Legacy Carrier.

As usual, pilots are their own worst enemy.

Some decades ago I was much in the same position and found coding paid multiples better than any available flying position.

Then I got downsized at 55 into a job market that was just as brutal to old coders as it was to low hour pilots.

So keep building that Plan A as you will likely be needing it not too long after you turn 35;)

Indeed I went from a Computer Science degree to a well paid IT Consultancy position, that funded a CPL/IR after resignation, then 737-300, and then back to IT/Government consultancy. I recall many Captains after I stated my previous pre-airline salary look at me as if I were crazy to give it up, and more than one told me I was foolish.

There are youtube videos of a recent BA A320 captain in his early 30's give up flying to code... starting from his last days up front to his new career.

After a standstill lasting a couple of years (about 2009-2013) I see a lot of movement now in the pilot market. I'm working for a semi-lowcost airline in NW Europe, and we are foreseeing problems te get pilots in the future. A lot of our FO's are 'upgrading' theirselves to the main carrier (really a lot, last year more than 10% of all pilots), so we need a lot of new guys. The new pilots are partly firsttimers, partly coming from other airlines like Ryanair. The company is even starting its own flying school to secure enough new pilots for the future.
So I don't know if there is a real shortage at this time (we still manage to attract enough new pilots), but management is taking measures for a possible shortage in the near future.

Sad, and weird, to hear. I'm well in my 40s and have not seen anything similar. Every company I've worked for so far has a mix of junior vs experienced SWEs. But then again, I'm in silicon valley where there is always a market for people with skills. For comparison (and not to show off), my W2 income for last year was well above 300k (this includes base, bonus, RSUs etc).Of course, that includes the silicon valley bonus (cost of living is horrible). I've yet to see air crew make that.

My point being that at this point in time, young people interested in aviation must make a choice between cash and their dreams, and potentially have a plan B.

Just an FYI, every captain at DL, UA, AA, SW,A FDX, UPS makes more than 300K, and quite a few FOs do too. At least 30,000 pilots make that much money.
And on a totally unrelated note:"ook uit holland??"

I guess there might be more than one but the individual starring in the video EatMyShorts provided ended up flying in the Far East but (judging by a follow up video) seemed to hoping for a career change at some point.

Yes, that was the chap!

Quite a few skippers in China lift $350k net if money is your thing.

I've never seen an FO go above 300k, but good for them if they do. If at flagship carriers, getting to that level requires seniority to get to the left seat, and a mix of skill and luck to get to the left seat of long-haul. In my team, I have newgrads starting at 150+, with midlevel engineers (think early to late 30s) well above 200k. While that for sure is possible at a flagship carrier, we all know that for the average flyboy hopeful, that's simply a dream that is either unattainable or will take a lot of time. Which brings me back to my original point: have a plan B.

Holland is a long time ago. Lost NL citizenship and haven't been back in a long time.

And don't go flying for money alone. If you can't say "doing what I love and getting paid for it" at least sometimes, it's not the right job for you. I am not foreign to coding but I would think more than twice about changing from flying to coding just to increase my salary.

There's the Matrix movie ... :ooh:

There is a certain je ne sais quoi knowing that you guys are exercising code I wrote and systems I helped design :)
But don't expect huge sums or any thanks.

How many WOW's pilots on the market? (European? Americans? Others?)

178. Mostly Icelandic and other European nationalities.

I was chief pilot of a small skydive operation for several years. It was surprisingly difficult to find suitable pilots. You know pilots who I felt comfortable enough that they were competent enough not to kill our customers.

The good ones were obvious and soon moved on to better things. Others not so much. One lad seemed to fit the bill but after quite a few hours sitting right seat with him I just couldn't let him solo. CPL he might have but no. Saw him lately still floating around.
Not everyone has what it takes. So yes plenty of pilots are out there but not everyone has what it takes.

Maybe. However, with that experience the entry level jet is then an A320 or 737 and a command in five years. Of course one could get his CPL and a degree at something like Embry Riddle or UND (costs are similar) and then spend another 100k to get the required 1500 hours for his ATPL. Different systems and very different job markets.