the failed box is called "transformer rectifier unit". These devices are from the stone age of solid state technology and not known for their superior reliability. Anyway such a failure should not kill all communication busses. I wonder how much additional electric load all the additional governmental communication devices put on those busses. around the Wolfsburg/Hannover area. I thought Airbus fitted a RAT in order to solve the electrics Not a solution to cross the pond. |
TRU
Can somebody tell how a single TRU failure can wipe out all comms and fuel dumping? Why couldn't they shed loads and switch between busses? What's wrong with this design?
|
Originally Posted by threemiles
(Post 10325040)
Can somebody tell how a single TRU failure can wipe out all comms and fuel dumping? Why couldn't they shed loads and switch between busses? What's wrong with this design?
|
Originally Posted by judebrad
(Post 10324290)
Not exactly the greenest of airliners, you would have thought they would have had some A330's in the fleet.
They won't "borrow money to buy it", finance or similar, the Germans think borrowing money is wrong. Cost of a new aircraft on lease might well be higher than cost of purchase of an old one and operating costs for the low utilisation. It's not always greener on the other side. |
Originally Posted by Big Bad D
(Post 10325066)
A single TRU failure would not result in loss of all comms. Please don’t believe all theories from PPRUNE “experts”. |
Originally Posted by Joe_K
(Post 10325578)
So what does result in the loss of all comms, plus fuel dumping for good measure? And what else would they have lost on top of this, which wasn't reported?
DC BUS failure? |
I wonder if an ad-hoc operator could ever meet ETOPS requirements and so is more or less bound to use 3 or 4 engined aircraft if they want to fly point to point in oceanic and remote continental airspace.. |
Originally Posted by gearlever
(Post 10325694)
A340 is more than 25 years ago for me, so I can only guess.
DC BUS failure? |
Originally Posted by golfyankeesierra
(Post 10325768)
I wonder if an ad-hoc operator could ever meet ETOPS requirements and so is more or less bound to use 3 or 4 engined aircraft if they want to fly point to point in oceanic and remote continental airspace.. |
Originally Posted by Airbubba
(Post 10325821)
I don't believe military passenger aircraft are required to meet civil ETOPS requirements. Twins like Gulfstreams, 737's and DC-9's have been used across the pond for VIP transport for many years in the U.S. Many countries, e.g. Canada and the UK, use twins to take their heads of state overseas on oceanic routes.
Perhaps in the spirit of Brexit we can loan her Mrs Mays nearly new RAF A330 VIP Voyager! Just back from on time trip to Argentina. |
I have no idea what regulations apply for military pax twin ops but I don’t think UK-AUS would require ETOPS, nor UK-Canada which would be approximately along blue spruce route. |
Originally Posted by golfyankeesierra
(Post 10326416)
I have no idea what regulations apply for military pax twin ops but I don’t think UK-AUS would require ETOPS, nor UK-Canada which would be approximately along blue spruce route. Here's Teresa May's route home from the G-20 conference in her rented Airbus A330 tanker ZZ336: https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....20e94af414.jpg https://www.radarbox24.com/data/regi...336#1089433533 The French president departed EZE in a twin as well, F-RARF, another A330. |
The 14 RAF A330 Voyager Tanker/ Transports, are owned by Air Tanker a civilian Company, and leased to the Military. Some are also on Lease to UK airlines (Thomas Cook and Jet2) and are able to be reconfigured as Tankers at relativity short notice if required. They are ETOPs approved at build. So no problems with routings when the VIP configured aircraft is used, for example, direct UK Argentina. |
Originally Posted by BRE
(Post 10324448)
Then why continue out to the sea? Were they hoping to dump only to discover that the pumps were also done in?
|
Here's a lead for Germany on a late model VIP aircraft for sale, you can see it on the ground in VCV.
The presidential aircraft was put on sale by Andrés Manuel López Obrador, near the end of his first day as president of Mexico.The Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner TP-01 “José María Morelos y Pavón” of the Fuerza Aèrea Mexicana, was put on sale by the new President of Mexico, Andrés Manuel López Obrador, at the Benito Juárez International Airport in Mexico City, Mexico.On Sunday, Dec. 2, Carlos Urzua, the new Minister of Finance, called a press conference in Mexico City during which, media representatives could observe the Presidential Boeing 787 not only from the outside but also from the inside, in order to get a glimpse at the VIP configuration: along with the official government seals, the aircraft interiors feature flat-screen monitors in executive meeting rooms, a presidential bedroom and what appeared to be a marble-clad bathroom. “We are selling all the planes and helicopters that were used by corrupt politicians, the new President said at a rally in Xalapa, Veracruz, near the end of his first day as president of Mexico, France24 reported. Indeed, the sale of the TP-01 was one of the populist promises of Obrador during his campaign as a candidate and, later, as a president-elect. The aircraft, considered to be “an offense to the people” and a national symbol “opulent and ridiculous,” was procured at the end of 2012 at an approximate cost of 370M USD. It will be sold (along with the rest of the 60 government airplanes and 70 helicopters), in agreement with Boeing: according to the reports, the aircraft will be sent to Victorville in Southern California, while waiting for a new owner, on Dec. 3. Interestingly, the Mexican Government posted a sort-of auction on their FB page with photos and a text that roughly translates as follows: “It goes to California and is put on sale! Type of plane: Presidential, Type: Boeing 787 Dreamliner; Almost new; Very Luxurious.” https://theaviationist.com/2018/12/0...head-of-state/ https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....a69778bbcd.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....07db55fff1.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f6a3b0b774.jpg Photos by Alejandro Cegarra |
Isn't the Mexican one of the very early 787s with performance issues, that wouldn't ever see airline service for that reason?
|
I don't think the german government will buy a non-EU build aircraft for their fleet, except in cases where there is no other choice. Which one could of course argue was the reason for procuring four Global 5000. Not to mention of course, that buying from Lufthansa, let it be refurbished by Lufthansa and maintained by Lufthansa props up their precious "national champion" as well.
|
Remember here in the USA the president is still flying one of the few 2 generation old 747-200s still in the air with a nearly identical backup. Still for many of the trips a 757 is used because they are to airports that can't handle a 747. This is for a country that gives money to the military industrial complex like it is Monopoly money. Reason given is that the 747s are filled with high tech communication equipment when all presidential communication is done with an open network iPhone on Twitter. I really don't have a problem with having a presidential jet that can be recognized anywhere but one wonders how long a country so adept at military spending (yes, Air Force One is part of the military fleet) can keep growing debt while agitating the prime owners of that debt outside the USA - China.
|
Originally Posted by Denti
(Post 10327657)
I don't think the german government will buy a non-EU build aircraft for their fleet, except in cases where there is no other choice. Which one could of course argue was the reason for procuring four Global 5000. Not to mention of course, that buying from Lufthansa, let it be refurbished by Lufthansa and maintained by Lufthansa props up their precious "national champion" as well.
|
Originally Posted by NWA SLF
(Post 10327677)
Remember here in the USA the president is still flying one of the few 2 generation old 747-200s still in the air with a nearly identical backup. [...]. I really don't have a problem with having a presidential jet that can be recognized anywhere but one wonders how long a country so adept at military spending (yes, Air Force One is part of the military fleet) can keep growing debt while agitating the prime owners of that debt outside the USA - China.
AFAIK only France bought their Presidential Jet fresh from the Airbus factory. The UK bought the A330 as part of a MRTT deal. The Queen started flying commercial in the early 2000s. |
There are obviously some doubts concerning the explanations in this story, new newspaper article claims
Quote (Google translate): Contrary to what government officials have suggested in initial responses, security agencies can not yet conclusively state that it was all about technical failure. There are apparently indications from the friendly foreign countries. Experts had been skeptical as soon as the incident became known that both the radio and at the same time the device for discharging kerosene had failed (go to tagesspiegel.de-zwischenfall-vor-g20-gipfel) |
[[i]QUOTE=oliver2002;
AFAIK only France bought their Presidential Jet fresh from the Airbus factory. .[/QUOTE] This is not true. The French Presidential jet is the A330-200 MSN 240. It was a Swissair aircraft, leased from ILFC, from 1998 to 2003. It then became operated by Air Caraïbes Atlantique until 2009 when it was bought by the French State. After interior installation, it went into Presidential service in November 2010. |
The French Presidential jet is the A330-200 MSN 240. |
Originally Posted by Lord Bracken
(Post 10327528)
Isn't the Mexican one of the very early 787s with performance issues, that wouldn't ever see airline service for that reason?
|
Originally Posted by cessnapete
(Post 10326584)
The 14 RAF A330 Voyager Tanker/ Transports, are owned by Air Tanker a civilian Company, and leased to the Military. Some are also on Lease to UK airlines (Thomas Cook and Jet2) and are able to be reconfigured as Tankers at relativity short notice if required. They are ETOPs approved at build. So no problems with routings when the VIP configured aircraft is used, for example, direct UK Argentina.
Originally Posted by Denti
(Post 10327657)
I don't think the german government will buy a non-EU build aircraft for their fleet, except in cases where there is no other choice. Which one could of course argue was the reason for procuring four Global 5000. Not to mention of course, that buying from Lufthansa, let it be refurbished by Lufthansa and maintained by Lufthansa props up their precious "national champion" as well.
I have to say, a lot of operators have their maintenance done by Lufthansa Technik so they can't be that price-uncompetitive. It's a reasonable choice, even if it does support their national airline a little. |
Originally Posted by nicolai
(Post 10328285)
They couldn't possibly buy a Falcon 7X or 8X?
|
Re the Mexican garage sale , my Mexican friends tell me it is just a populist PR stunt. Nobody believes for 1 second that the new President will travel on public transport in the coming years. This is Mexico, not some egalitarian Scandinavian country .
|
He will need Satcom and all the staff bells and whistles. Don't see him fly airlines for long.
A firesale will not save money now after they converted it. And it's a very early exot frame and possibly not easy to resell. |
None of which matters, this is politics.
|
A bit off topic.
Does anyone have details of Vlad Putin's craft and route to Argentina? |
Originally Posted by garpal gumnut
(Post 10329253)
A bit off topic.
Does anyone have details of Vlad Putin's craft and route to Argentina? |
Would it not have made more sense to bring the back-up crew on duty 2-3 hours’ later than the main crew, so in the event of a delay or turnback, the reserve crew would still be in hours for the trip? |
Originally Posted by Uplinker
(Post 10329360)
Would it not have made more sense to bring the back-up crew on duty 2-3 hours’ later than the main crew, so in the event of a delay or turnback, the reserve crew would still be in hours for the trip? |
Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
(Post 10329158)
Re the Mexican garage sale , my Mexican friends tell me it is just a populist PR stunt. Nobody believes for 1 second that the new President will travel on public transport in the coming years. This is Mexico, not some egalitarian Scandinavian country .
|
I expect he is grateful not to be the German Chancellor if you are representative of the German voter. Poor chap just cant get it right, can he? Not too sure about your medical diagnosis either........Personally I would like to see more politicians flying with the proletariat
|
Some news from German news page DER SPIEGEL: Zwischenfall im Kanzler-Airbus bleibt rätselhaft (google this quote and use google translate for translation).
They still couldn't find the reason for the incident. The problem couldn't be reproduced. Even Lufthansa Technik have no idea how this happened. Plane is still in their workshop and not active. |
And apparently, as a result of that incident some parts of the government are discussing getting either a brand new A350 or A330 (NEO probably) for chancellor transportation services. Although all jets of the Flugbereitschaft are used for all of the government and quite often for MPs as well, even those of the opposition in some cases.
|
Originally Posted by Denti
(Post 10337027)
And apparently, as a result of that incident some parts of the government are discussing getting either a brand new A350 or A330 (NEO probably) for chancellor transportation services. Although all jets of the Flugbereitschaft are used for all of the government and quite often for MPs as well, even those of the opposition in some cases.
Also, we get a chance to spite Donnie a bit at the next G20 summit... :-P Edit: corrected formatting |
Well, the A340s are maintained by Lufthansa, apparently not such a good job they did there. And the security clearance is not the big issue, it is a military airplane and requires a military license to fly, as lufthansa refuses to take ex luftwaffe pilots (except as FIs in Bremen) that could be an issue.
|
According to a Spiegel report it was after all a Lufthansa maintenance fault. The start of the failure chain was a faulty soldering joint in one of the TRs, which usually should not be a big issue. However, after reconfiguring the aircraft the remaining system lasted only for about 70 seconds until it failed as well, as several faulty solenoids were installed in that aircraft. Additionally Lufthansa replaced the original AMU with a digital one, without updating the documentation (SB A340-23-4242), which lead to the embarrassing issue that the crew did not have the correct procedures available and therefore was unable to restore communication (apart from SATCOM to their OPS).
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 10:21. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.