The Conquest craft looks like it has been converted to a CV-580? |
Originally Posted by Hotel Tango
(Post 10193554)
However, it was reported in several publications as having been converted to an CV-340.
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Originally Posted by Hotel Tango
(Post 10196433)
Better inform the FAA quick, they have it as an C-131F ;)
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Originally Posted by aterpster
(Post 10193859)
As to single-engine performance just after lift-off, it was problematic. There was no requirement to meet a OEI takeoff flight path when these airplanes were certified.
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Originally Posted by aterpster
(Post 10195107)
You were able to comply with 121.189?
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Link posted on the internet of a remarkable video from a light aircraft showing the last minutes of this flight. Image quality is limited, but confirms that it was struggling to hold altitude before crashing:
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From what someone has posted here, the density altitude would have been about 5,700 ft. That would not be good for performance on a limited performance aeroplane. That was a long way that they struggled with it.
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Very sad indeed. FYI United States FAA SFP ( Ferry Permit ) for aircraft that size not on FAA121 AOC/Ops specs. Essential crew only ( 3 max ) plus mechanic all must hold FAA license, this old machine seems was a straight out ferry candidate only. Read she was carrying 19 pax and gear maybe 2000kg I guess to much at her age at 5700 foot field elevation. I hope all are recovering quickly, looks like crew did the best with what they were given.
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Originally Posted by MarkerInbound
(Post 10197521)
We operated piston Convairs under part 121, we had to meet 121.177. |
Image quality is limited, but confirms that it was struggling to hold altitude before crashing Perhaps that smoking engine was still producing power at that stage? |
Yes the crew certainly put up a good fight. The real reason all? got out alive, is they seemed to have hit the ground "under control", therefore not stalled. A lesson for us all. Unfortunatly the TAS/ground speed would have been high, considering the D.A.
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With both pilots alive they should be able to give a good account of what happened to the enquiry, they should be out of hospital soon. There may well be other contributing factors such as problems with the gear or flaps.
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they should be out of hospital soon When they do come around, I’d be surprised if they remember anything that happened that day. |
Originally Posted by A Squared
(Post 10196723)
The 240 was certified under CAR 4b, effective 1946. that version of the CAR contained a requirement for OEI performance CAR 4b.116.
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No, CAR 4 and the current part 25 are only certification rules that set certain performance requirements. CAR 4 required rates of climb that were a function of stall speed. FAR 25 requires set climb gradients. At least in the USA part 121 requires the operator to work backwards from the manufacturer's performance data to insure obstacle clearance taking into consideration current conditions. |
Originally Posted by aterpster
(Post 10198007)
Did that require a regulatory-defined takeoff flight path to clear all terrain and obstacles to a specified altitude?
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Originally Posted by MarkerInbound
(Post 10198108)
CAR 4 required rates of climb that were a function of stall speed. FAR 25 requires set climb gradients. |
Originally Posted by A Squared
(Post 10198138)
CAR4b-116 defines the takeoff path segments and CAR4-b.120 specifies the OEI takeoff performance. Why is it so astonishing to you that an aircraft certificated in the transport category for airline operations post WWII ans operated by airlines has OEI takeoff performance?
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Originally Posted by aterpster
(Post 10198146)
Not astonished at all. Just trying to learn something about the piston era.
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Originally Posted by A Squared
(Post 10198164)
OK, it seemed to me like you were resisting the notion, which seemed surprising coming from someone from the era when seeing Convairs, DC-6's and the like flying for the airlines was pretty common.
Before I learned to fly I rode on UAL's DC-6s several times. I didn't have a clue about the airspace or airway structure at the time. I do recall riding from Stapleton to Burbank one Spring (1955) afternoon. There were peaks higher than us on both sides somewhere in the Rockies. The cu was building around us. Suddenly, we were solid IMC and the g-load increased until we popped out going eastbound. That was a learning experience. |
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