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Smoke and mirrors! Perhaps this is India's way of showing the global community that they take cockpit discipline seriously and an attempt to circumvent the appalling CRM levels that persist in their culture. Falling asleep over Ankara, Pressing approaches when unstable, landing on top of cows, failing to go around, arguing with ATC, continuing to land with Flaps 5, runway overruns, the list goes on. Yet a "lovers tiff" that results in a loss of face (or red face!) seems to attract more press than jeopardising the lives of hundreds of people on a daily basis..The macho man culture needs to be nipped in the bud before even more countries ban them from entering their airspace.
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Originally Posted by Shytehawk
(Post 10012226)
Juan Togoh - It is you who needs to engage brain. What super VC-10 said is entirely correct. Suggest you read up on secure cockpit doors.
Are you and VC-10 professional airline pilots familiar with modern large aircraft flight deck door lock procedures and operation? I suspect not . FYI, (and so you don’t embarrass yourself any further) , there is a protocol procedures for accessing a vacant and locked fight deck during flight. I can’t tell you more than that , it’s a secret just for us pros . |
Avenger
You hit the nail on the head. It is very frightening situation. |
Originally Posted by Shytehawk
(Post 10012226)
Juan Togoh - It is you who needs to engage brain. What super VC-10 said is entirely correct. Suggest you read up on secure cockpit doors.
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While there is no doubt that the standards are quite shocking in India, this situation isn't unique and so-called 'professional pilots' have lost their heads and let the CRM slip out the door in the UK/EASA-land (the Flybe incident) - in some ways this incident was worse given that we all consider the UK has such high standards.....mind you the only thing thats worse than putting ex-lovers in the cockpit is putting an ex-RAF/RN pair together! :}
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One of the US airlines had a similar situation with the pic having a nervous break/melt down in the cabin. Luckily on the ground while doors were still open.
A reminder that all of us are human and this particular job is rather stressful? |
Surely this is a 7500 type job? Serious event if both crew leave the cockpit after a scrap..
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Looks like two more DEC's for a Middle Eastern airline. ;)
Jet Airways sacks two pilots who fought in cockpit on London-Mumbai flight Saurabh Sinha | TNN | Updated: Jan 9, 2018, 14:42 IST NEW DELHI: Jet Airways has sacked its two senior commanders who were involved in a cockpit fight while flying from London to Mumbai on January 1. "Consequent to the review of the events on board Flight 9W 119 London-Mumbai of January 1, 2018, Jet Airways has terminated services of both the cockpit crew with immediate effect," said a Jet Airways spokesperson on Tuesday. Flight 9W 119 of January 1 was operated by two commanders. Jet's senior most Boeing 777 commander was flying as co-pilot and his deputy was the commander of this flight. The "co-pilot" had allegedly slapped the lady commander and then the cockpit was left unmanned on two occasions when he went out to bring her back in. The two Jet pilots' troubles are unlikely to end with the airline sacking them. The "co-pilot", according to top sources could end up losing his flying licence. The Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) has taken a very serious view of this unprecedented episode. "The cockpit fight was a shocking and a very serious incident. Both the pilots were out of the cockpit a couple of times and there was no one there. What if they had been locked out of the cockpit? This is unheard of and calls for extreme action," said a top DGCA official. The 'extreme' measure for licensed professionals like pilots is cancellation of licence by the issuing agency (in this case, the DGCA) after which they can no longer operate flights and fly only as a passenger. Asked why action was taken only against the co-pilot, another regulatory official said: "It is alleged the lady commander was hit by the co-pilot and she left the cockpit. As per rules, one pilot can leave the cockpit as long as another is there. So she left when one pilot was still on the controls. While the probe will examine her role as well, prima facie the co-pilot's hitting the commander and then leaving the cockpit to bring her back in — leaving the cockpit unmanned — led us to suspend his flying licence immediately." |
I don't think they can escape this incident by just leaving the country. A few moments of madness are going to haunt them for a long time.
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Originally Posted by Airbubba
(Post 10014989)
Looks like two more DEC's for a Middle Eastern airline. ;)
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/62426015.cms |
The stupidity, by any standards beggars belief.
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Originally Posted by hr2pilot
(Post 10012927)
FYI, (and so you don’t embarrass yourself any further) , there is a protocol procedures for accessing a vacant and locked fight deck during flight. I can’t tell you more than that , it’s a secret just for us pros .
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So the female pilot is physically assaulted and no one wants to give her any latitude for not wanting to rush back into harms way?
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Originally Posted by silverstrata
(Post 10015130)
Dont be too sure of that, hr2. Have you tried it for real recently? We did a survey, and 10% of doors failed to let the crew back in, while 10% of crew did not know the procedure. Supposed to be checked on every crew change, but obviously wasnt. Just make sure the engineers have set everything up properly.
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Hr2pilot. I'm not a pilot, nor have I ever claimed to be on Pprune. Just someone interested in civil aviation, that's all. Appreciate the privilege of being allowed to post in here.
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It's all very well having a means of getting back into the cockpit, but how are you placed in the event of an engine failure, decompression, autopilot failure, TCAS alert: the list could go on.
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I wish India would learn the difference between a Captain and an FO. Makes trying to follow their crappy reporting even harder. If they are both captains then find another way of describing them.
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Originally Posted by Herod
(Post 10010053)
Both pilots out of the cockpit; door swings shut. Now what?
only the presence of a "relationship" explains this madness. |
Originally Posted by Fire and brimstone
(Post 10012566)
CRM training .........
You are the Commander - the other pilot punches / slaps you in the face (two crew). If a passenger would slap a cabin attendant what would you do? It's not because you are a pilot/cabin attendant/passenger, the consequences of your behaviour would change. Violence is violence. Some people (politicians ie) are "protected" from sanctions, that does not mean they are free from the question if they can maintain their position or have to be removed from that position instantly. Can Trump hit an employee in one of his hotels? If a passenger slaps a cabin attendant, it is a very good reason to divert and land asap. If a pilot would slap one in the face he should also be considered "incapacitated" and it becomes single pilot operation. In other words, emergency + diversion. It becomes more interesting if you step back a lot and try to find out the reason why he slapped in the first place and who should be considered incapacitated. Couldn't help it... |
Originally Posted by Super VC-10
(Post 10016929)
Hr2pilot. I'm not a pilot, nor have I ever claimed to be on Pprune. Just someone interested in civil aviation, that's all. Appreciate the privilege of being allowed to post in here.
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