Don't worry, once you get some time in, and maybe a few years of command, you'll realise that all of the great ideas that you think you've thought of for the first time have already been thought of.

HT you will note I said perhaps. My suggestion is based on the experience of a number of jobs I did in this field one of which resulted into a trip to an 'office' not far from Gatwick to offer some expert advice.

Surely the most worrying thing about the whole story is the declining standards of BBC journalism. I believe the phrase is "en route" rather than "on route." Whatever next?

In the olden days we'd have the charts out and were much more aware of FIR boundaries and changeover points. Also the charts have the sector frequencies on. In my experience some pilots didn't seem to be aware that if you lost contact a call on 121.5 MHz and ATC should be able to sort a frequency for you.

Where did the suggestion that this was a NEW idea come from? Certainly not me. People read wildly between lines that simply don't exist.

That is probably the most arrogant statement I have seen in a very long time. "Don't worry lads. We've seen it all before, it could never happen to us". Glad to see things still haven't changed at Jet2

I heard the fighter pilot cleared off when he realised there was no way they were going to lower the refueling hose for him.

Some people assume the worst because they read way more than is actually written. The internet, generally speaking, isn't the sort of place where you find people restraining themselves. We say what we can't get away with in public. Yes, this much is true. :ok:

Stab Trim : FAF interceptions are normally done by 2 a/c , one doing the intercept the other behind that will become active in case of non compliance . The pax maybe saw this one , the first one is close to the cockpit and is normally not visible from the back .

I do not think people flying to the sun today realize the State of alert our arm forces are in France regarding terrorism. Have a walk in any French city or airport today , the guys you see in fatigues are real , with real bullets . same in Spain by the way. If you overfly , better reply , " say again frequency " if you are not sure , or go back to previous in the frequency you tune in is silent ...

HT:
I had better hand my ticket back in then.

I stand by all of my post, having had first hand experience of ALL that I have written from the centre in question. Furthermore, common sense says that the sector expecting the traffic will ask for it when late on frequency, however if the sectors are combined there are regular issues where aircraft simply run out of range (daily). You can't transfer a late transfer if they are now out of range of your comms......

As I said, 2Planks has the closest guess from my experience of the normal issues that cause this situation to arise over France.

So, you are suggesting that there are no other alternatives? 121.5, or relaying through another aircraft on your sector for instance. Remember this was not during a particularly quiet period in the middle of the night.

HT

exactly this has happened to me in busy uk airspace. Freq change, check in, told to stand by, called again after a few minutes and told roger. Called again near FIR boundary and out of range. 121.5 resolved the issue and received an apology from senior controller over the phone (after she had heard the tapes).

Sometimes when its busy (and especially in some countries not far away) controllers do not listen/acknowledge properly.

Ah so perhaps you think that it's just Jet2 pilots that don't check their radios before they get airborne...

Not specific to Jet2 though is it. There's plenty of experience from the last 114 years of powered flight that we can all learn from.

I don't quite know how a junior, low hour, pilot and a product of today's industry can have the gall to imply that pilots employed by one specific airline lack airmanship because of a PLOC.

It's not like it only happens to Jet2 is it?

Particularly since we don't even know if it was a PLOC, or even if it was, whose fault it was. But we DO know that the French Air Force have on multiple occasions used unwitting airliners for interception practice. Sometimes incompetently, like the time they caused a TCAS climb. This is unacceptable and should be stopped before it causes an accident.

Shot One : suggesting tbe FAF to be incompetent in 2017 indicate you lack of knowledge of the military. Ask around .
As to the TCAS incident you refer and DO ( your capitals ) know for a fact , can you give me the details , incl the exact date ? I will check .
The " incompetence " if you want to use that word is more on the civil side at the moment.

But not always.

"EUROCONTROL has learnt of incidences where flight safety has been compromised and unnecessary TCAS Resolution Advisories (RAs) triggered during interceptions of civil aircraft because of misunderstanding regarding the operation of aircraft transponders and the properties of ACAS II. "

Safety Reminder Message

Jeppenson EFB enroute product is very good for all that. Boundary's marked if you want and you can one finger a boundary waypoint and you can see the relevant frequency's from both sides.

Apart from it sucking battery like a swine it works very well, allows you to ask for sensible directs to the edges of FIR's which in my experience increases the likely hood of getting the instant reply of "approved"

That FAF used airliners for unannounced interception practice on multiple occasions is a matter of record, ATCwatcher. To the concern of many, including Eurocontrol. Does your legalistic demand for dates imply you dispute this?

It's also worth asking why such a very high number of intercepts are conducted in French airspace compared with adjacent FIR's. Do the worlds airlines somehow become that much more incompetent in France?

It's their airspace after all.