|
AUS police foil plot on aircraft
Police disrupt plot in Australia to 'bring down an airplane'
CANBERRA, Australia (AP) — Australian police disrupted a plot to bring down an airplane and arrested four men in raids on homes in several Sydney suburbs, the prime minister said Sunday. Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said that security has been increased at Sydney Airport since Thursday because of the plot. The increased security measures also were extended to all major international and domestic terminals around Australia overnight. "I can report last night that there has been a major joint counterterrorism operation to disrupt a terrorist plot to bring down an airplane," Turnbull told reporters. "The operation is continuing." Australian Federal Police Commissioner Andrew Colvin said details were scant on the specifics of the attack, the location and timing. "In recent days, law enforcement has been become aware of information that suggested some people in Sydney were planning to commit a terrorist attack using an improvised devise," Colvin said. "We are investigating information indicating the aviation industry was potentially a target of that attack." https://www.yahoo.com/news/4-arreste...133500937.html |
Any more from down under on this?
As always, it is what is not being said that raises the most interest. |
All I can say is the terriosts have won again. The PM has warned the nation to expect long security screening times and asked then to limit the amount of luggage the carry. What is it costing to fight this cancer? There must be a better solution.
|
Sydney terror raids 'disrupted' plot to bring down plane, Malcolm Turnbull says - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Not much more detail, but obviously the potential threat was enough to make airport security reassess what they currently do. Well done to all involved, but I fear this is just another part of modern life that we will have to learn to live with. Once people get it in their mind that they can further whatever cause seems important to them, and have no guilt or remorse about killing innocent people, there is nothing really that can be done but watch and act. As the USAF used to say "The price of eternal vigilance is eternal vigilance" |
The price of eternal vigilance is eternal vigilance |
Reading between the lines. They had worked out a way to construct an explosive on a plane from parts carried on. It makes sense to not reveal any more details.
|
Cats outa the bag now...
|
That's just your speculation and no such thing has been reported or inferred here.
This may becomes a headline tomorrow quoting you as the source :ugh: |
No, SOPS, the terrorists have not won again. We will have to get used to the extra measures. Personally, I would sooner wait in a long queue, knowing that the (hopefully, well funded) security services are doing their job, than breeze through with the possibility of never reaching my destination.
|
You only had to,look at the names of the suburbs with the exception of Surry Hills to know who is behind it all.
|
Security
Mostly I fly through UK, Australia, Spanish, Asian airports.
UK & Australia (Sydney) seem to me to be usually chaotic, long conga lines in the UK, nowhere to put anything, shoes, bags. Nowhere to sit when putting shoes on. Supervisors who seem to be of no value whatever. My opinion is there should be the necessary number of properly trained security staff for the job to be done without long waiting lines. If security has to be, then it should be done properly. By the way, why do UK passport readers usually not work and other countries do ? |
Five properties were searched on Saturday across the Sydney suburbs of Surry Hills, Lakemba, Punchbowl and Wiley Park.
|
They had worked out a way to construct an explosive on a plane from parts carried on |
Whilst technically correct, the use of the descriptor "IED" has more gravitas than the term, "home made bomb".
In my view, "IED" implies a professional or military level of design, sophistication or potential destructive force by using improvised military munitions. "Home made bomb" implies the materials to make it are gathered from a domestic environment. The Boston bomber was charged with using a "weapon of mass destruction", until then a term in common use for err well weapons of war, not the humble pressure cooker. In both cases are police deliberately over emphasising the threat by using these politically charged terms? In doing so, raising level of public apprehension? |
The 'security forces' are not going to suggest that what they have 'found' was 'nothing of consequence'.
|
In both cases are police deliberately over emphasising the threat by using these politically charged terms? The Boston bomber was charged with using a WMD because according to US criminal code, any explosive device is considered a WMD. Police aren't in the habit of just using random terms when they legally charge someone with a crime. IED does not imply professional or military design. IEDs by definition are "improvised" in some way, that is, not a standard military or commercially designed explosive (although an IED could be improvised from one). "Home made" explosives generally mean IEDs constructed solely from readily available materials, like bleach (hydrogen peroxide), fertilizers (ammonium nitrate), etc. -- whether or not they were actually made at any home. So all "home made explosives" are IEDs, but not vice versa. It's not clear from reports what kind of materials were seized in the Sydney raids. I would guess they were widely available materials. From an aviation perspective, the good news is that most of these materials are detectable by security screening devices. |
The good news is that most of these materials are detectable by security screening devices. And also presumably excellent use of intelligence on the part of the security services. That is the difficult stuff, the clever stuff. All as it should be. So let's not allow some middle management to make a career out of extra security screening and even more baggage restrictions. |
I am only SLF, but it seems to me that putting the baggage back in the hold would help to mitigate a lot of the problems. Granted that battery powered items are an exception, but with the fees the airlines are charging, passengers are dragging all their worldly possessions into the cabin with them. If those fees were eliminated, undoubtedly a lot of stuff would be checked, instead. It would make life easier for the flight attendants, lessen the chance of heavy bags falling on someone in turbulence or a crash (and keep people from bringing their bags in an evacuation), and there would be less for the security scanners to check, presumably allowing them to do a more through job and speeding up the lines. Is there a legitimate reason (besides greed and the fact they can get away with it) for the airlines to NOT want luggage in the hold?
|
Originally Posted by peekay4
(Post 9847046)
... The Boston bomber was charged with using a WMD because according to US criminal code, any explosive device is considered a WMD.....
|
Originally Posted by esa-aardvark
(Post 9846642)
By the way, why do UK passport readers usually not work and other countries do ?
And, yeah, I wouldn't mind being 'randomly selected for additional screening' every other flight I take if the people doing it weren't so incompetent. I was particularly impressed the time I was waiting for my 'additional screening' and the swab they took from the little old lady in front of me triggered an alarm, and they all ran around like headless chickens trying to figure out what to do. This is why I just avoid flying these days. The terrorist have, indeed, won. |
So that gave Dubyah and Tony quite a bit of leeway for invading Iraq, right? Having said that, now there are reports that the Sydney plotters intended to release poison gases, which would qualify under most WMD definitions. Australian terror plot ‘involved gas attack on plane’ |
Latest out of Sydney. Flight Release forms which what appear to be on QF Paper for a SYD-CGK flight which I assume is QF41/42 was found in the rubbish.
Sydney terror raids: Plot to blow up flight with meat mincer bomb foiled |
IED does not imply professional or military design UK politicians and police rarely refer to home made bombs as an IED, neither should their Australia counterparts. In my view "IED" is a more terrifying term, "home made bomb" more accurately describes the threat and so educates the public. |
Originally Posted by jugofpropwash
(Post 9847311)
I am only SLF, but it seems to me that putting the baggage back in the hold would help to mitigate a lot of the problems. Granted that battery powered items are an exception, but with the fees the airlines are charging, passengers are dragging all their worldly possessions into the cabin with them. If those fees were eliminated, undoubtedly a lot of stuff would be checked, instead. It would make life easier for the flight attendants, lessen the chance of heavy bags falling on someone in turbulence or a crash (and keep people from bringing their bags in an evacuation), and there would be less for the security scanners to check, presumably allowing them to do a more through job and speeding up the lines. Is there a legitimate reason (besides greed and the fact they can get away with it) for the airlines to NOT want luggage in the hold?
|
Flight release form ? If official , opens up a whole new area of investigation ... unless one or more of the suspects are airport employees . Always a weak link in the security chain IMHO .
|
There was some evidence that the Security guys at UK airports were not reporting any technical issues so they weren't being repaired/maintained
A scandalous tale was that early versions were being interfered with by person or persons unknown so they wouldn't work................ |
Don't panic.
Originally Posted by wheels_down
(Post 9847370)
|
Horse bolt stable door etc., - a known effect in government
Try boarding an aircraft if your name is Mohammed Atta doesn't matter that he died on 9/11 - he'll not be allowed to get away with it again! :ugh: |
Flight release form ? If official , opens up a whole new area of investigation |
Originally Posted by wheels_down
(Post 9847370)
Latest out of Sydney. Flight Release forms which what appear to be on QF Paper for a SYD-CGK flight which I assume is QF41/42 was found in the rubbish.
Not that that has ever bothered these a....les before. |
Men arrested over Sydney 'plane bomb plot' have links to aviation industry...
..but it is not suggested he is involved in the allegations and police don't believe the group infiltrated any internal airport systems or staff.
The plot intended to bring down an aeroplane with a bomb or deadly gases. Precursor materials were found that could have been mixed to make either an explosive device or a noxious gas to incapacitate those on a plane. Men arrested over Sydney 'plane bomb plot' have links to aviation industry The son of a man arrested in Sydney over an alleged plot to bring down an aeroplane with a bomb or deadly gases studied aviation management and mixes with a network of pilots and airline workers, it can be revealed. The revelation comes as sources confirmed to Fairfax Media that the Sydney cell behind the alleged plot were talking to foreign fighters in Syria in communications that were picked up by allied intelligence agencies. The son of one of the men arrested was reportedly studying aviation management in NSW. It is understood that British and US spies fed the information to Australia, triggering police to bring forward a planned operation by launching dramatic raids in Surry Hills, Punchbowl, Wiley Park and Lakemba on Saturday evening. Four men – two middle-aged fathers, one adult son and a relative in his 30s – remain in custody at the Sydney Police Centre on suspicion of attempting to build an improvised explosive device that they could smuggle onto a plane, believed to be a commercial flight to Dubai. The alleged plot, described by police as sophisticated and elaborate, was allegedly hatched with help from Islamic State operatives in Syria. On Sunday night, the AFP successfully applied to a court to detain the men for up to a week without charge. Police have seized several items from four homes, including a kitchen meat mincer possibly intended to hold the bomb. Precursor materials were found that could have been mixed to make either an explosive device or a noxious gas to incapacitate those on a plane, it's understood. Khaled Merhi, aged in his 50s, was arrested in Surry Hills and his son, Abdul Merhi, was arrested in Punchbowl. Khaled Khayat, also in his 50s, was arrested in Wiley Park and a relative, Mahmoud Khayat, was arrested in Lakemba. The four are related through marriage. One of Khaled Khayat's sons, who has not been arrested and is not facing charges, studied aviation management at UNSW. Several photos on online profiles show he socialises with alumni who have gone on to become international pilots, airline managers, airline network analysts and air traffic controllers. Fairfax Media is not suggesting he is involved in the allegations and police don't believe the group infiltrated any internal airport systems or staff. In one online post from 2015, the son described his father as "the best man on the planet". Bomb squad officers and heavily armed police searched a unit on Sproule Street, Lakemba, following the arrest of four men. "He has been my hero and inspiration for all my life and been there for me through all the ups and downs. Always being wise and full of heart he is the man that I aim to be everyday of my life," he wrote. On Monday, Australian Federal Police Commissioner Andrew Colvin said the information received by police had no "specificity on what was to be attacked" or "when it was to be attacked". Bomb squad officers were among police who raided a terrace house in Surry Hills on Saturday night. He declined to comment on the overseas tip-off. "I think the important point here is the intelligence was received, police and our security partners have acted very quickly to stop and disrupt another attempted attack in this country," he told reporters in Brisbane. Jacinta Collins, a counter-terrorism expert with the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, said bringing down a plane or killing large numbers of people would have been a significant technical challenge. "The things that would make the most impact are almost impossible to get onto planes these days," she said. But any kind of attack on a plane would get the attention and headlines terrorists crave, she said. "You don't need to necessarily kill or injure many people to get the attention. Terrorists do look for something that is a vulnerability to demonstrate their power and get a headline." Rodger Shanahan, a terrorism specialist with the Lowy Institute, said the group might have had multiple targets and back-up plans beyond a plane attack. He said police were right to move when they did based on what they had gleaned about the alleged intent, but it remained to be seen whether their capabilities matched their ambition. He said the involvement of overseas intelligence agencies demonstrated the benefit of sharing information so that even suspects who weren't on a current radar in Australia could be picked up. "You need to have your net cast as widely as possible. That's why all these strong relationships we have with overseas partners … is really, really vital. You can't do everything yourself so you need close partners." Greg Barton, an expert from Deakin University, said dispersing a sulphur-based gas on a plane "doesn't make any sense at all" because even potent gasses such as the nerve agent sarin were hard to "weaponise". He said the alleged targeting of a plane was "quite a threshold that has been crossed" in Australia. The counter-terrorism operation forced authorities to implement enhanced security arrangements at all major Australian airports including extra screening and baggage checks. It led to long delays at Sydney Airport on Monday. Officers in protective gear continued searching homes in Lakemba and Surry Hills on Monday, digging up yards and going through garbage bins. |
|
If the information now coming out is accurate then a more appropriate title for this thread might be "Undetected terror plot fails on technicality" - or something similar.
|
Undetected, yes. But you'd hope that it would have been the moment the device got scanned after check-in. Of course, they're claiming that in dummy tests run since, they've found it every time.
But, they would say that, wouldn't they? |
Disturbing details:
High-grade military explosives used to build the bomb were sent by air cargo from Turkey as part of a plot "inspired and directed" by the militant Islamic State group, police Deputy Commissioner National Security Michael Phelan said. ... "This is one of the most sophisticated plots that has ever been attempted on Australian soil," Phelan said. ... Since police revealed details of the scheme, security experts said it exposed weaknesses in air cargo screening, particularly in Turkey, where intelligence agencies have been weakened by a government purge in the wake of last year's failed coup. "Islamic State is now positioned in Turkey such that it can send military-grade explosive via cargo flights out of Turkey around the world," said Deakin University's Barton. "Now presumably Sydney is not a one-off and they are going to try this elsewhere and that's a level of risk that we hadn't thought of before." |
Originally Posted by Just a Grunt
(Post 9852501)
Undetected, yes. But you'd hope that it would have been the moment the device got scanned after check-in. Of course, they're claiming that in dummy tests run since, they've found it every time.
But, they would say that, wouldn't they? As you may have guessed, my point was actually aimed at the current thread title which now seems to be totally inaccurate. |
It's accurate as police foiled the follow-up attempt, and a second plot involving toxic gasses.
Having picked an international flight as their target, the men were forced into a last-minute change of plans when the baggage wasn't allowed on board. But Australian authorities were only alerted by overseas intelligence agencies when the alleged conspiracy was revived. |
What evidence is there of a second attempt on an aircraft?
Yes, police did foil the gas plot but police said they suspected it to be deployed on public transport or in a public place, rather than an airliner. So question about thread title remains. |
To be fair, the thread title would have been based on the very scant details available at the time that the thread was opened.
In hind-sight, and not necessarily surprisingly, that initial information was quite a way off the mark. |
|
| All times are GMT. The time now is 08:41. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.