Massive hailstorm in Istanbul 27.07.2017
 

Multiple aircrafts damaged

Turkish airline A-321 (ECN-IST), diverted to CKZ.

https://i.imgur.com/UleHFKD.jpg

Pegasus Airlines flight PC909

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFwaYabWsAEKTXC.jpg

and the the "pièce de resistance" Atlas Global flight KK1010

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFwYh-9WsAAeQBD.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFzX7J3XcAAE46y.jpg

whoops

A video of the landing



Another video in the cabin

Why did they fly into it?

That is obviously a very relevant question. Given the downpour affecting the area the weather radar muss have been lit like a Christmas tree...

Actually dry hail doesn't show up that well on airborne weather radar.

That is obviously a very relevant question. Given the downpour affecting the area the weather radar must have been lit like a Christmas tree...
Why did they fly into it?

Also relevant is where was this encounter during arrival? What could ATC radar see, or was weather suppressed? If it was, and the a/c is at low altitude, the onboard Wx radar can become cluttered with ground returns. On various occasions, in Europe, I asked ATC for weather avoidance assistance and they told me they couldn't see much, but my scope was showing unfriendly returns. Problem was I wasn't so confident what was ground return and what was lumpy bumpy sky. Under vectors I sometimes refused them and requested places that I could see were clear. An ATC controller can tells us what they can see for real.
However, descending into Orlando, the choice was taken from me. The weather was so bad that ATC had to re-route all arrivals & departures round some severe stuff, and they could see it all.
ATC are responsible for terrain avoidance and concrete clouds. What responsibility do they have for CB avoidance?

Not all ATC controllers have access to a window in the direction of their controlling area, thus may not be able to see.
Some ATC units are better then others in having weather on their screens, some do not even have this capability. It would not be good to assume they have access to information they are unable to provide.

Of course those controllers that do and make use this technology are a great help to aviators and should be consulted as they can sometimes provide vital clues required to make a different decision.

Typhoon:

Yes, but there was a huge quantity! Plus water probably! And windshear ahead ? And turbulences on the wx radar too!

Would be intersting to see the wx radar picture and trajectory.

And at least 3 different aircraft?

Apparently also blew a 747 on to a loader parked next to it airporthaber.com/ahl-haberleri/firtina-nedeniyle-ahlde-b747-loader-aracina-carpti.html

Not all ATC controllers have access to a window in the direction of their controlling area, thus may not be able to see.

And that is what can be very disturbing. ATC give vectors towards finals, you have a lot of ground clutter, and trust ATC have your best interests at heart. They do not tell you, and thus you can not know, what they can see, or not. Going into GRO I tried to build a good picture of the weather when at high FL and ask for re-routing accordingly. When <FL200 the Pyrenees masked the true weather.
In todays world of low experienced captains they have been brought up to 'do as you are told' and thus do what ATC tell you without question. I've certainly seen it from F/O's: a nice sunny day, only one large Cu in the sky, a/c skin temp -20c, ATC give vectors directly towards the Cu. No thought as PF selected the HDG. I questioned it, blank expression from PF, and suggested to ATC that either another 20 degrees in the turn or a turn the opposite direction due Wx. No problem, they had a choice and made it. PF still looked blank as if it was a huge surprise we could question ATC.

I'm still curious at what FL and how far from the runway this damage happened. The windscreen of Global looks very challenging. Well done, in the end, guys.

The most damaged one, Atlasglobal A-320, got it while climbing through 4000 feet. The pilots claim they saw nothing on the weather radar
Incident: Atlasglobal A320 near Istanbul on Jul 27th 2017, hail strike

Was the radar turned on? Hail this time of year in IST is going to wet at the altitudes discussed and paint like crazy.

Good question

Has anyone got any TAF and METAR`s.

Here is a video from the ground in Turkey. Looks like some serious precip with the hail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDSf9-13lH0

If you're in climb or descent and under ATC what are you supposed to do with your own weather radar? Do you cancel your ATC instruction?

Incident: Atlasglobal A320 near Istanbul on Jul 27th 2017, hail strike
also includes inside "view" of cracked windshield:eek:

As mentioned by some avherald commenter I'm surprised they did not use autoland.

Maybe the autoland antennae were as useful as the radome:ooh:

Yes.

"Unable due to ________"

The Atlas PIC for sure appreciated having a magenta line.. .. ;)

Absolutely! You simply say unable. If they insist you exercise your emergency authority.

OK, sounds about right

now for anybody, how often is that done for weather you have been vectored into?

Obviously we know where it wasn't done.

I'm not trying to find fault but just to get a feel for what actually is being done both on the ground and in the air.

Reminds me of my only time in Istanbul. Multiple crew, taking off northbound. Thunderstorm about 6 or 7 miles north of the runway at touching the edge of the first waypoint where we will make a 90 degree turn. Some flights are asking tower for an early turn with approval but that suggestion by me is ignored by the PIC. After all...we will just ask departure for an early turn.

It is so busy on departure frequency that we can't get a word in for an early turn. Only light rain encountered fortunately. Get the weather deviation clearance early.

Same happened to me going into a northern Italian airfield, a small CB that seemed to be on its deathbed (decaying) and did not paint more than just green was in our way, thus I thought I could enter that cloud on it edge. I judged wrong.
I judged wrong. Tock tock tock and the radome was due for repair. The TCAS was full in that terminal area.

If you're in climb or descent and under ATC what are you supposed to do with your own weather radar? Do you cancel your ATC instruction?

Agreed. Safety of the flight is captain's responsibility.

Thunderstorm about 6 or 7 miles north of the runway at touching the edge of the first waypoint where we will make a 90 degree turn. Some flights are asking tower for an early turn with approval but that suggestion by me is ignored by the PIC. After all...we will just ask departure for an early turn.

Was at a reasonable quiet airfield, but No.2 for departure, and luckily the taxiway approaching the Hold was pointing in take off direction. The sky ahead looked grey & unfriendly. We lit up the radar to scan the SID. Not nice. We called tower to ask Departure ATC for either; an opposite early left turn, or an extended climb out (across a national border) by 10nm and then the 270 right turn in the normal direction. All coordinated before we launched and stressless. Tower did not have radar and Departure was a remote location. ATC are a member of the team, but you are the captain/manager & coach, ultimately. Use all resources.

Did it about 2 days ago.

most often hail reflects radar poorly, it may not even display at all

The first pic of the Turkish Airline - any idea why only one half of the windscreen appears damaged? Pure luck, or a replacement part of a different material?

Transparent aluminum.

Be interested to see intakes/blades from the A320.

It has happened before and will happen again. As others have said on this thread, aircraft weather radar is not very good at identifying hail. See this:-
Incidents and Accidents

To me, this is the essence of the minimization of the risk encounters.

I tend to think along the lines that there is a lot more knowledge available from ground based radar, covering approaches and departures from an airport, than expecting airborne radar to key the crew actions.

For enroutes the expectations may be different.

I have seen many crews willingly fly into an obvious massive thunderstorm on approach, relying on previous pilot/ATC reports of 'it's just rain', or 'three aircraft in front of you landed successfully'. I am not talking monsoon conditions but obvious cells above the runway. Why risk it?

It might be 'just rain'. Then again, it might not. Or you might be the unlucky one to catch the first line of hail and lightning. Why risk it? The storm will move away in minutes.. And remember, the first one in the hold is the first one out. It takes just one 'negative request to hold at the IAF for the rest to follow'.

I have no idea what was painting on the wx radar in front of these Turkish crews, this is just my 2p worth.

I, like many others have a hard time believing that there was nothing painting on the radar. For this kind of hail you need a CB. A massive CB. CB's paint on most wx-radars I have seen.

But hey, I'm willing to learn.

WX radar is not good at painting dry hail which is normally at high altitude. It paints wet hail extremely well which would certainly have been the case in IST this time of year. In addition the radar will paint the cells that create the hail and in this case I understand the cell could be seen visually as well as being reported by ATC.
The dry hail issue being reported here is normally hail being spit out the top of a cell above 30,000 feet. Again the cell itself will paint however the hail can be tossed as much as 20 miles downwind of the cell and won't show up on radar until it gets below the freezing level and a film of moisture builds. This is the reason for the common advice to avoid enroute thunderstorms by 20 miles.

Sailvi767,
You are correct

Seems there are few depths the Ukrainians will not sink to.....

Ukrainian pilot cyber-bullied for landing hail-damaged passenger aircraft - PravdaReport

Errr. What was the option? Not land?

He isn't bullied for landing the jet or more generally for his skills but for being from the "wrong" part of Ukraine, thus not deserving of the praise handed over by the government.

Not that it excuses anything.