PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Rumours & News (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news-13/)
-   -   3 point turn in a 757 (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/596345-3-point-turn-757-a.html)

Rocade 26th Jun 2017 07:50

3 point turn in a 757
 
So what do you do if you missed your exit? Looks like this one just missed the turn and instead of calling for a tug, just a little bit of reverse and problem solved :ok:

I know powerbacks were common back in the 70's and 80's but were abandoned for a number of reasons. Looks like the crew was under pressure to make the turn (notice the tire smoke just before the turn).

https://youtu.be/lqZ83gJc7DE

RetiredBA/BY 26th Jun 2017 09:19

Pretty silly thing to do due risk of damage to engine due ingestion of hot gas, FOD. On the 757 reverse was cancelled at 80 knots so as to be at no more than reverse idle by taxi speed.(IIRC, it's been 20 years!)

RAT 5 26th Jun 2017 09:22

Not been there in a while, but surely there is a turning circle at both ends? And, they started to make a 180 from the centreline and not from the edge of the runway. It seems a 45m runway, so manoeuvring to the edge and then turning should be no problem. It used to be the case that on these type of runways in hot climates, it was mandatory to use the end turning circles.
The runway is short enough; I can't imagine making the 2nd turnoff was critically necessary otherwise the estimated stopping distance becomes crazy short.

As for 'backing up'; it is possible. Nearly had to do it once in Africa, B757, but fortunately we managed to negotiate another solution. Not recommended if you haven't been trained and with a wing walker.

Piltdown Man 26th Jun 2017 09:24

Pragmatism at its finest!

Rocade 26th Jun 2017 09:39


Originally Posted by RetiredBA/BY (Post 9812573)
Pretty silly thing to do due risk of damage to engine due ingestion of hot gas, FOD. On the 757 reverse was cancelled at 80 knots so as to be at no more than reverse idle by taxi speed.(IIRC, it's been 20 years!)

My SOP calls for idle by 80 and closed by 60. I know that Eastern did powerbacks back in the early days of 757's but stopped, in part due to risk of FOD damaged

Skyjob 26th Jun 2017 09:53

Think this should be shown to the operator in question, if only for some debrief of the event at the very least.

Multiple people saw and know about the event, the registration is just about visible on the footage, definitely the 737 lining up is, G-TAWD has not been to JSI in last 7 days, so establishing when footage was taken will identify crew by airline.

macdo 26th Jun 2017 10:33

LOL, I feel tea, without any biccies, in the office for someone.

Hotel Tango 26th Jun 2017 11:15

It was probably the Chief Pilot. So he will have tea AND biccies with himself!

cessnapete 26th Jun 2017 12:34

The manœuvre practised at Prestwick on my B747 Conversion. No problems only low power needed, we had crew member with head out of the cockpit roof hatch if directions needed. Only for use in extremis!

DaveReidUK 26th Jun 2017 12:34


Originally Posted by Skyjob (Post 9812612)
Multiple people saw and know about the event, the registration is just about visible on the footage, definitely the 737 lining up is, G-TAWD has not been to JSI in last 7 days, so establishing when footage was taken will identify crew by airline.

A quick look at FR24 would indicate that, unless the video is more than 6 months ago, it was filmed on 16th June, that being the only occasion this year where the 737 in question departed JSI immediately after a TOM 757 (BY7534 from BHX, in this instance) had landed.

Emma Royds 26th Jun 2017 13:41

I don't think he missed the exit but perhaps he tried to make the most northern taxyway (which incidentally gives a landing roll of around 800m) but this involves a turn of around 140 degrees to the left and that coupled with the narrower runway at 30m, obviously gave less pavement to turn on.

As there is no nose in parking at JSI, perhaps there is no tug and 757 towbar available anyway?

southern duel 26th Jun 2017 14:08

sure is one way to lessen the life of an engine !! This action also increases the risk of FOD ingestion. Why do you think they have tugs for pushbacks ? I remember a DHL 727 at Heathrow doing it off stand years ago and as it was so dangerous it was stopped. They did it as they couldnt be bothered to get a towbar from another part of the airfield. The only aircraft that regularly do it are hercs as they dont tend to carry towbars

KelvinD 26th Jun 2017 14:44

DaveReid: I would agree with that date. The video seems to show G-OOBN on the fuselage of the arriving B757 and that was indeed the aircraft flying BY7534 that day (arriving around 10:20 ish). Regardless of all the shock horror stuff, the pilot didn't reverse down the runway; he backed the aircraft up across the width of the runway, just to get the extra 10 or 20 metres needed to make that taxiway turn. Exactly as the thread title suggests; a 3 point turn.

LeadSled 26th Jun 2017 15:19

Folks,
Experience over the years tell me that it is OK if you are very careful.

I have been part of the crew several times, as somebody said, pragmatism.

It can have interesting consequences, old BOAC mate of mine did it at EGLL during an industrial dispute with tug drivers, a B707, ----- aircraft was blacked for quite a while.

We did it one night on the cargo ramp at (now) KJFK, again B707-320C. As S/O/SSCCSA (Secretary to the Steering Committee and Captain's Sexual Advisor), I was the one hanging out the back doors calling the directions, we were empty, fortunately.

We backed up a B747SP one night at YBBN, again an industrial dispute and the tug drivers refused to push, the aeroplane was blacked, didn't come back into Australia for something like a month.

Be extra careful if you are going to do it with a JT9 of any kind.

All good stuff, as long as you get it right.

Hotel Tango 26th Jun 2017 15:36

I experienced it several times in the USA, albeit in B727s whose engines are higher mounted of course.

Blackfriar 26th Jun 2017 16:39

Reversing
 
It was very common in the US many years ago and I remember regularly helping the Air Ecosse Bandeirante to reverse off stand at BFS on the BFS/PIK/ABZ schedule. It sometimes needed a helping hand on the nose to help break the inertia, if it was heavily laden.

Herod 26th Jun 2017 17:16

Risky stuff. If anything goes wrong, you are in deep doo-doo.

max alt 26th Jun 2017 17:36

Chief pilot flying into cat c airfield!!,now that made me laugh.
I have seen a 757 power back many times in Orlando but we were not allowed to do it under normal circumstances.I would suggest that as Skiathos is such a well photographed airfield ,nothing gets missed.Go to the end and use the turning circle,the clue is in the name.

oceancrosser 26th Jun 2017 18:18


Originally Posted by Rocade (Post 9812594)
My SOP calls for idle by 80 and closed by 60.

Why? Did someone not understand the use of Thrust Reversers as laid out in the FCOM?

Bergerie1 26th Jun 2017 18:28

Done rather neatly, I thought!!


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:14.


Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.