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"Swiss" makes emergency landing in Germany
According to the German news "tagesschau" a Swiss Prop plane made an emergency landing @ Werneuchen. No injuries or fatalities are being reported. The plane was enroute from Basel to Hamburg, and it is thought that the plane was running low on fuel. On landing the plane overran the runway and damage to the landing gear is being reported.
Can anyone confirm? |
more info about the field
runway 08/26 1499 meters / 80 metes wide hard surfaced limited to 5,7 tons EDBW |
Sounds like ex Crossair is out flying..
Will they ever learn.. |
Before you little boys overspeculate :
Airport was Neubrandenburg. aircraft did not overrun but there was some debris from the storm on the runway. Normal Hamburg alternates ( Bremen, Hannover, Berllin) apperently all closed due to weather. |
Negative it was Werneuchen just northeast of Berlin. Former soviet MiG-25 base but almost unused and limited to light a/c today. Wonder why they picked it over Finow and many other available former military bases.
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Indeed it was Werneuchen.
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Hi guys,
I am quite concerned about the planning that was going on. There are TAF's and even METAR's available for the destination, and they should know about the active cold front that passed by then. The flight from Basel (BSL) to Hamburg (HAM) usually takes 1h45min, which means even the METAR's are still valid. In any case you may expect a handfull of problems, delays and probable diversions on such a stormy evening. So why are you already short of fuel on approach to your *first* planned alternate? (How was that about fuel planning guidelines?) And why do you plan an alternate east of the destination, sitting within the cold front storm system, and don't divert to a westerly alternate where the winds already calmed? The Saab 2000 is a 50 seater according to http://www.swiss.com/index/sw-oc-fl-saab-2000.htm, and it had just 16 PAX on board, so there's no problem to take some extra fuel due to the stormy circumstances. I am no Saab 2000 rider, but I suspect the endurance of the plane to be somewhere around 3,5 hours (range is about 1'265NM @ CRZ speed of 370KTS). I suppose it must be possible to divert safely, or you don't go flying... And Basle wasn't so stormy at all, so a safe return to the homebase would have been possible! How was that old saying: "Learning to fly takes about 45 hours. Learning when to fly can take a lifetime..." Hope you don't take me wrong about my critical thoughts, but as a Swiss I am rather concerned about happenings like this. The Swiss people have paid lots of money to get back a national airline, and the press department is quite busy telling us how ravishing the new airline is. But if you have a critical eye on some happenings at the shorthaul fleet, it's quite concerning. Swissair (the former Swiss national medium and longhaul airline) had ADAS on every single aircraft (data system recording aircraft parameters during the flight), and a safety department which investigated these data after the flight, checked every single movement out of tolerance, every bank angle more than 35°, every "not so smooth" landing, searched for the reasons which led to such incidents, and published the findings into a regular safety brochure which was handed out to the flight staff to improve awareness and safety. I am aware that you will never get a 100% safety record, but you may come close, and Swissair at least tried to get there. I learned some weeks ago that Crossair didn't have any ADAS systems on their planes, and (on political pressure from the Crossair Cockpit Personal) even tore the ADAS out of the MD-80's they got from Swissair in the mid 1990's. I guess they know why... At least it is reassuring that Swiss now plans to setup ADAS systems in the shorthaul fleet and to get the former Crossair planes under the same supervision as Swissair did (the same people are now in charge of the safety department that have been at Swissair). We are very critically watching the ongoing things... flight safety and training status at the former crossair shorthaul fleet, top management decisions which often remind us that many of the now top chiefs of Swiss International Air Lines formerly led a regional carrier and have no experience in leading a major longhaul carrier, and many more... I hope they realize that talking about being "world class" and being up there might be a difference... Just my two pence... Kind regards, Webwings |
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Well, but it looks bigger from the air:
2 pics at: http://www.werneuchen.de/geschichte/flugplatz2.htm |
Berlin reported the cold front passing exactly at this moment, when the Saab was trying to get on ground (2050 LT). They had a temperature drop of 11° C (from 29° C to 18° C), with winds about 25 knots gusting up to 50 knots, accompanied with heavy thunderstorms with rain throughout the Berlin region.
(http://deutsch.wunderground.com/hist...lyHistory.html) In contrary, Bremen reported less than 10 Knots of wind, Frankfurt reported less than 10 knots earlier, and Dusseldorf was dry already in the afternoon, reporting less than 10 knots wind. Why did they choose an alternate inside the "cold front laundry machine"? And the bottomline: All the others did their job well! No LH, no Condor, no Air Berlin incident reported this night, as far as I know. Cheers, Webwings |
Webwings, just be carefull spreading your eager arrogance around. You have obviously problems with having a neutral critical reply on this matter.
Please spread your comments out of wisdom and not out complete stupidity. To quote you : You really don't get it. Cheerio. |
Update:
4:58PM 2002.07.11 (GMT+1) Further details of the landing of a SWISS aircraft at Werneuchen, Germany " A SWISS aircraft was forced to land at the former German military airfield of Werneuchen yesterday, July 10, at around 20:50, owing to exceptionally adverse weather conditions in the region. The aircraft suffered severe damage on landing as a result of an obstacle on the runway. The 16 passengers and four crew members were uninjured. The aircraft, a Saab 2000, was operating flight LX 850 from Basel to Hamburg. The crew had been unable to land at either the destination airport or the intended diversion airports because of the exceptionally stormy conditions. In planning the flight before departure from Basel, the crew allowed for both the destination airport of Hamburg and the alternate airports of Bremen and Hanover in their fuel calculations, in full compliance with standard operating procedures. The crew also elected to carry an additional fuel reserve permitting up to 45 minutes of flight in a holding pattern. All planning was performed in full accordance with the requirements of the European Joint Aviation Authorities (JAA). The flight departed from Basel at 17:55 – ten minutes later than its scheduled departure – for air traffic control reasons. The flight – LX 850 – was unable to land in Hamburg owing to storm front conditions. Subsequent attempts to land at Bremen, Hanover and Berlin also had to be aborted in view of the adverse weather in the area. With the fuel remaining approaching the minimum reserve, the crew asked air traffic control to urgently provide it with an open alternate airport. They were then directed to the former military airfield of Werneuchen, which has a runway of around 1500 metres length. Despite information provided by ATC, the crew were unable to detect any obstacles on the runway. And, in view of the minimal fuel reserves available and the still-adverse weather, they were forced to take the decision to land. During the rollout after touching down, however, the aircraft was severely damaged by a metre-high ridge of earth extending across the runway. Upon coming to a halt, the Captain ordered the evacuation of the aircraft, in accordance with standard procedures for such situations. The aircraft – a Saab 2000 with the registration HB-IZY – was carrying 16 passengers and four crew members. There were no injuries. The Captain, who is 33 years old, has been a SWISS pilot (and formerly a Crossair pilot) since 1996. The 28-year-old First Officer has been flying for the company since 1999. The two cabin attendants have been flying for the company since 1992 and 1998. Most of the passengers and crew spent the night in Berlin, where they were cared for by SWISS personnel. The accident will be investigated by the German investigation authorities. SWISS deeply regrets this incident and the inconvenience caused to its customers. It is relieved to know that none of the passengers or crew were injured. The company has despatched personnel from its Flight Safety and Technical Services units to Germany to assist the investigating authorities. Note to editors: This is a summary of the facts known to us by 16:00 today, Thursday, July 11. Further information will follow as soon as it is available." SWISS Corporate Communications P.O. Box, CH-4002 Basel Phone: +41 848 773 773, +41 1 564 2120 or +41 1 564 0000 Fax: +41 61 582 3554 E-mail: [email protected] Internet: www.swiss.com http://www.huginonline.com/try/plsql...=866485&p_la=5 |
What a good job this didn't happen to BA - the replies would have been a bit different...
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Sorry, but...
TS+ Says :Before you little boys overspeculate..... (and then proceeds to quote totally the wrong airfield ! Then TS+ Says : Webwings, just be carefull spreading your eager arrogance around...... You got a mirror ? |
This incident (or should it be called an accident) seems to touch a raw spot in a few SWISS people, it seems......
A look at the respective profiles explains a lot. Emotions run high in Switzerland at the moment. Maybe diverting to the East of a cold front was not such a good idea ? But that's speculating and with the benefit of hindsight we all are a lot cleverer than before. It's up to the two guys up front at the time to know. +TS: watch your language !! |
A good photo:
http://www.strangecosmos.com/view.asp?PicID=5511 |
"elected to carry a 45 minute reserve"
would that mean 45 minutes on top of the minimum or just the normal 45 minutes holding which you can't really "elect" not to take. A metre-high mound of earth on the runway doesn't sound like storm debris either........ Maybe ATC wasn't up to date on the status of the aerodrome. I have some feeling that ATC doesn't know too much about secondary airports anyway (I've seen a US controller position where the controllers could call up all info including approach plates for airports in their sector on a screen next to his (antiquated) radar screen). Any (german) ATCer to comment on this. We wouldn't even have carried approach plates for anything but designated destinations and alternates............ Regarding the decision to take an alternate closer to the action than the destination itself: the met briefings we're routinely issued don't really give a graphic view of ground conditions. The standard met briefing consists of a FL100-450 significant weather chart, wind charts from FL50-FL390 and a text printout of METARs and TAFs. You never get a surface to FL100 chart (if such a thing even exists) and compared to the US a lot of information doesn't seem to exist or at least isn't distributed to pilots on a regular basis (weather briefers have long been eliminated as a cost factor). So you're on your own to identify any trends in ground weather reports. Might have been a factor here (even though the stuff happening on that day would have reflected on the >FL100 chart as well). |
I completely agree with Alpine Flyer: If they really talk about the Final Reserve according JAR, it's a shame to consider this to be an amount of fuel "elected [by the crew] to ... permitting up to 45 minutes of flight in a holding pattern".
Flying is about weather since Orville made its first hop. Everything else has been made much easier during the past 100 years: We have planes with indifferent and labile behaviour made guidable by supercomputers on board. We fly at Mach 2+. We fly longest-haul routes. We have automated collision avoidance systems. But the weather problems still exist, and regarding thunderstorm activities with the imminent danger of microbursts and severe windshears, I believe that this is one of the most challenging topics for a pilot, to decide if the weather is flyable or not. Assessing meteo is considered to be a very important issue to every pilot, and I hope that in everybody's own interest an in the interest of the paying souls we are hauling every day, we should be able to interprete the weather accurately. And I would be wondering if these cold front thunderstorms and gusts haven't been on the TAF's (and at least on the VOLMET's during the doomed flight). If anyone is unsure of interpreting the met stuff, this should be considered as a topic for the next ground instruction... A far as I know, Swissair had a perfect met service (by MeteoSchweiz, the Swiss Meteo Agency) until her last days, giving great briefings to their crews, and therefore enabling them to be aware of weather at destination and alternate. I don't know how it is today (as Swiss has taken over the controls and has initially phased out nearly every thing that reminded of Swissair, as this was considered to be too expensive). I hope for them that the old met office is still running, providing them the same valuable met info prior to the flight as they had it before. But decisions still lay in the hands of the pilots... I agree, it's harder to decide when being at the controls (every one "gets dumber behind the controls" because of the workload, to quote a pilot pal of mine). Must have been a bad situation for them pals up there, but my bad feeling about the incident still exists... |
Comment
As an ex-Crossair Saab 2000 captain I feel qualified to comment on this incident.
Short of having the information from the FDAU's, CVR's, radar and radio tape; an accurate analysis of this occurence cannot be made. Clearly however, the incidental history of Crossair over the past three years speaks volumes! It is way past the time for the FOCA to take action. Unfortunately, they sit by as a willing accomplice to this unending downward spiral. The level of experience of some Crossair captains is incredibly low. The level of "hands-and-feet" expertise, even lower. Right now, more than 30 highly experienced Crossair captains, are being told that they will have to leave the company by July next year, due to them being foriegn nationals working on B-Permits. The experience level will once again be diluted, and I unfortunately have to say it again: there will be another Crossair accident soon. Go ahead and shoot me down. Once your done doing that, read back in my past posts here on PPRuNe; you'll find I've said it a few times before.... |
45 min extra fuel
If the flight departed at 17:55 and landed at 20:50 the time in the air was nearly 3h. If the LX Information is correct that the crew asked for an available alternate before using the fuel of the final reserve and considering the time on route for a SAAB 2000 between Basel and Berlin those 45min seem to be real extra fuel to me (non including final reserve fuel).
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Latest pics on http://www.pccb.de/
Click the "Notlandung..." -button please. |
Grüezi Alpine Flyer and maxrpm,
OK, let me quickly quote from jet_noseover´s post : The crew also elected to carry an additional fuel reserve permitting up to 45 minutes of flight in a holding pattern. Webwings, I´m getting a little bit irritated by your posts. As an "ATPL student", "current on the PA 34 Seneca" according to your profile I think that you could be a little bit less arrogant from behind your computer screen sitting on your comfortable chair, saying what the crew ´should have done.´ As you correctly stated : "Learning to fly takes about 45 hours. Learning when to fly can take a lifetime..." so as an ATPL student I guess you´re still in the first part of the equation. ;) I learned some weeks ago that Crossair didn't have any ADAS systems on their planes, and (on political pressure from the Crossair Cockpit Personal) even tore the ADAS out of the MD-80's they got from Swissair in the mid 1990's. At least it is reassuring that Swiss now plans to setup ADAS systems in the shorthaul fleet and to get the former Crossair planes under the same supervision as Swissair did (the same people are now in charge of the safety department that have been at Swissair). We are very critically watching the ongoing things... flight safety and training status at the former crossair shorthaul fleet, top management decisions which often remind us that many of the now top chiefs of Swiss International Air Lines formerly led a regional carrier and have no experience in leading a major longhaul carrier, and many more... |
Robert Vesco, you can't defend Crossair's record - its appalling!
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12:27PM 2002.07.12 (GMT+1)
Further update on the landing of SWISS flight LX 850 A debriefing of the crew of Wednesday’s flight LX 850 from Basel to Hamburg and further investigations have produced new findings on the aircraft’s landing at the former military airfield in Werneuchen, Brandenburg, Germany. In addition to LX 850, the dramatic weather conditions on the evening of Wednesday, July 10 forced five flights of other airlines bound for Hamburg to land at alternate airports. In the case of LX 850, the closure of the various alternate airports selected (including, finally, Finow air force base) forced the crew to land at the former military airfield of Werneuchen in view of their dwindling fuel reserves. The approach to Werneuchen, which had been recommended by air traffic control, was made to Runway 08, i.e. from the west. The crew had decided on this approach because it was Runway 08 which had been in use at Berlin (Tegel) before the approach there had had to be aborted in view of the weather conditions. The former military airfield was equipped with a concrete runway of approximately 2400 metres during its service years. At present, only the eastern part of this is available for flying, providing a runway of 1500 metres. The westernmost 900 metres, which are no longer in use, are separated from this shortened runway by a low earth wall. The pilots had no documentation on the airfield on board, since it is only used by sport aircraft. The western section is marked as closed by a series of crosses, though these have been severely weathered over the years. The old runway markings – centreline, threshold and distance markers within the former touchdown zone – are still shown, and are actually easier to identify than the out-of-use crosses. The pilots were also unable to see the earth wall during their approach, in view of the fading light and the generally poor visibility caused by the prevailing weather conditions. Werneuchen has no runway lights. Note to editors: This is a summary of the facts known to us at 11:00 on Friday, July 12. Further information will follow as soon as it is available. http://www.huginonline.com/try/plsql...=866571&p_la=5 |
So Studi,
Don´t you agree with the ´fact´ that this anti LX campaign is getting a bit silly ? Crossair operated about 500 daily regional flight before all this mess with Swissair started and has expended enormously in the last decade. Perhaps this expansion has taken a toll on the safety record, but please let´s not forget that even ´well respected´ airlines have their share of f*ck ups ! Swissair has also crashed it´s fair share of aircraft in it´s history, and so has Monarch (bend 757 in Gibraltar) KLM (Tenerife), Air France (overrun in Tahiti) , Hapag Lloyd (rememer ´landing´without fuel in VIE) and even Qantas (overrun in Bangkok)..... the list goes on and on of accident that could have been prevented. Maybe it´s a sad part of the learning curve for any expanding airline. So it´s very easy (as an unemplyed SR pilot maybe ?) to sit behind your computer and judge everybody. |
Dear Robert Vesco,
well, let's talk facts then, and stay with facts, mate, not speculations! I am a student at the former Swissair Aviation School (now being called "Swiss Aviation Training"), and *am* on the very beginning of my carreer. I *never* told anything else. BUT: Being on the very beginning does not have to mean that I am an innocent little sheepish aircraft spotter. I handle aircraft as you do, it may be a little smaller than your vessel, but this doesn't mean I am not confrontated with weather, minimum descent altitudes and fuel calculations. I hate to pint fingers at personsn, but in contrary to you, I do the whole thang on single pilot operation and on raw data with A/P inop, whereas you may delegate a whole load of work to your PNF, your "George" and your FMS, your fuel calc's and flightplans are done by a dispatch office, and you don't even have to bother about cleaning your windscreens. I do not intend to be a wiseguy neither a god, and I am aware of my 100h in my book. But common sense is something you don't get with hours. So far about my actual position. The ADAS thing: I had the chance to talk with Mr. Schmid, the Swiss Safety Pilot. He is the person who is most current concerning flight deck safety in the company, and I really *don't* tell you what he has said to me, I just posted what he told me about the ADAS thing, and this is 100% true, unbleached and unbent. And it's very alarming. Ask him yourself if you want to get the story in full. The WE thing: I have spend a *really* big ****load of money to join this ATPL school. Until the breakdown of the SAir Group in fall 2001, talented applicants were given a preliminary working contract (so you had the chance - very good performance during the ATPL course given - to directly enter a Swissair A320 cockpit after the course, and the whole education had been financed by Swissair. I was one of them, and finished my university ten days before the ATPL course started, had literally no money, and was told three days before the start of the course that Swissair was broke, and our education not paid at all. We had the chance to decide within a week if we pay cash or forget being a Swissair pilot. I had *real* pains to get the money together, and am now on my way. And as our whole class is desperatly looking for a future job, we are very hopeful that Swiss is hiring when we finish our course. BUT: If Swiss continues to make bad press with incidents and accidents like yesterday, it will be soon over with passenger loyality and fat advertisements about "being the most civilised airline of the world". And *therefore* WE are watching this ongoings very close. Got it? Listen Mate, get the facts: Swissair had no incidents that made it worth getting to the press since years and years, except the halifax incident which we have to admit couldn't have been worse, but how could one have saved this situation? Complete electrical failure, cockpit burning at a heat of hundreds of degrees celsius and thick smoke... but no runway overshoots, no main gear taxied off a taxyway and stuck in the mud during a turn, etc. Crossair in contrary has a whole load of accidents and incidents, where I just have to say bless me, that was a very questionable thing again. There have been some rather strange incidents at Crossair, and I still feel *very* bad about these. Nassenwil and the Birchwil incidents. Busting a MDA on a Non-prec in adverse weather conditions is still one of the worst things to do in aviation, especially if you are driven by "homecomingitis". And how do you completely lose situational awareness in a SF340 cockpit during a wrongly started turn (Nassenwil)? Why did Crossair feature so many runway excursions (Zurich Avro last summer, Sarajevo Avro last december)/taxy problems (Pristina MD80 1998)? And why does a classmate of mine observe an Avro landing with a tailwind component of nearly 20 knots on ZRH RWY 14, whilst sitting on the jumpseat of a Swiss Airbus going around on 4m finals due to the excessive tailwind information? What about the Aosta excursion (notably in the days of GPS)? Why did LX drivers hate and fight against the introduction of ADAS, a means which would improve safety and awareness? Why did a pal of mine who worked for the LX dispatch @ BSL complain about a MD80 flight to the Canaries, where - crusing over the Mediterranean - the Cabin Crew finds out that there are dozens of required life vests missing? And a jumpseat ride I made from ZRH to BSL where the captain was asked inbound to LUMEL if he could do a visual to RWY 26 at BSL, he cknowledged, and put the Avro on its nose, extending everything available, hunting down with more than 3000ft/min VS, and overflying the threshold 26 with still four white on the VASIS and the speed 15 KTS over the Final Approach speed, really banging the plane to ground like I have never seen it before (try to produce a real "bang" on the Avro with it's trailing main landing gear!!) in order to get the thing stopped before the end of the runway. I'm just giving you facts. I don't want to act as a wiseass, and I don't want to slate Crossair's pilots 'in globo'! I have good pals flying for Crossair where I would trustingly sleep in the back of the plane. But there are others, and these have to be phased out! There's so much small things that not necessariy lead to an accident, but I'd say that Crossair has been very lucky not to have more accidents. I just feel bad about it..it's a deep fear that Swiss will be very miscredited by the flying public, if such incidents keep on happening. The eye of the world is on the Swiss aviation, now that Crossair with Birchwil and Skyguide with the recent midair have been miscredited worldwide by TV stations like CNN. That's facts. No stories, no bitter Aeropers or Ex Swissair pilot. No executive. No Crossair hater. Just a ATPL student bloke with nearly 100h of piston shakers, some common sense and open eyes. Welcome to reality! I wish you all the best for your career, and hope you are not that stuck in financial troubles as WE yougsters, who have to bleed to fulfil our dreams and get our wings... PS: Excuse me that I stressed your nerves and time budget... I hope I didn't bore you... |
Vesco, Studi & Webwings
Wind your necks in and learn boys! You, could easily be next!
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very good, that's exactly what we need right now - ex-SWR and ex-CRX-people bashing each other. this times should be over now, because THERE IS ONLY ONE AIRLINE LEFT!!! I preferred SWR too from the ops point of view, but right now, this doesn't matter anymore. if these people don't stop throwing dirt at each other, we will end up with no national airline at all, but only with slightly bigger foreign aircraft to EDDF and EGLL. there's enough hard work left to be done, and we really shouldn' t waste energy by fighting people which are in the same company, but came "from the other side". if it's what you want, then just go ahead. and especially thanks to all the people talking about all the nice details about things that went wrong on CRX-flights and "something will happen again". i guess we can read about it in the next SoBli.....
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Wind your necks in and learn boys! You, could easily be next! Yo Webwings : I do the whole thang on single pilot operation and on raw data with A/P inop, whereas you may delegate a whole load of work to your PNF, your "George" and your FMS, your fuel calc's and flightplans are done by a dispatch office I do not intend to be a wiseguy neither a god I just posted what he told me about the ADAS thing, and this is 100% true ...and was told three days before the start of the course that Swissair was broke, and our education not paid at all. We had the chance to decide within a week if we pay cash or forget being a Swissair pilot. I had *real* pains to get the money together, and am now on my way. Swisair had no incidents that made it worth getting to the press since years and years, except the halifax incident which we have to admit couldn't have been worse |
What justifies a wall of earth at the approach/departure end of a runway anyway? Is that denoted in the taxiway plate?
If a runway (or parts of it) is still in use, aren't the markings supposed to be kept up to date, including the Xs? |
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Studi, I did not see any relevant facts (yet) about the incident.
The only socalled fact I have been reading are a list of things happened with Mr Webwings on a jumpseat (wich should be a privilege and not something to later criticise people upon) and other rumour-like stories. |
Check; those are facts. Also fact is that all the airports where closed, also fact is that the gear collapsed after an emergency landing, also fact is everybody got out (alive).
Maybe there where better options, also worse. |
labile behaviour made guidable by supercomputers on board |
Well, I'm sorry to see the waves going high about this theme.
I'll stop sharing my opinion about the incident at this point, and leave it to the german BFU (AIB) to get the facts about the incident and the conclusions. About the whole rest I just say: There's enough facts from different sources around. Get them by yourselves. Take and interprete it as you like. Perhaps this expansion has taken a toll on the safety record, but please let´s not forget that even ´well respected´ airlines have their share of f*ck ups ! [...] Maybe it´s a sad part of the learning curve for any expanding airline. I'll leave the interpretation about these things up to everybody. And after all, I want to underline my hope that the Swiss pilot's corps will find a common way ASAP, and this in my opinion can only be done by a common safety culture, a common high standard training and instruction culture, and a commonly good safety record. As I already said, my bad feelings (and the feelings of the other critics) will vanish as soon as the incident rate decreases. We'll see what the future will bring... |
If you think it's just normal that an airline (I'm talking about *any* airline, not LX) takes a certain death toll during expansion, I am really concerned. I want to underline my hope that the Swiss pilot's corps will find a common way ASAP, and this in my opinion can only be done by a common safety culture, a common high standard training and instruction culture, and a commonly good safety record. |
I don't want to lose much words about your latter part, because I am no insider about this. But if it is really this trench warfare that it seems to be, it's a sad chapter.
I completely agree: We have something new there, called Swiss, and I hope for all of us (and I inuclude the hopeful youngsters that are already peering for a job at this cmpany) that the merger will work well. For sure there can't be the big happiness within the next few weeks (as many company mergers have shown), but I hope that in the long term they find a solution concerning seniority, salaries and everything else. And it's like all the times: There are good ones and there are bad ones. There have been certain Swissair pilots using odd callsigns on the radio for weeks, in order to illustrate to the world how bad this merger was in their point of view. Hmmm... But I am happy about the latest improvements, as the transmission shows which I heard this morning in ZRH, a Swiss A320 in sequence behind a Swiss-ex crossair Embraer RJ: "Behind the company, will line up RWY 28!" It seems to get working... ;) Cheers, Webwings |
A tad more discretion?
Hoi Webwings - I share your concerns, and my own future here in Züri in totally dependent on the future success of Swiss, but could you be a little more tactful on this public forum?
Züri and Switzerland are small places - I've probably been on the 759 bus with you and I can't even step off a train without bumping into some (ex-SR) colleage - and word gets around quickly. I'm trying to say, don't wash dirty laundry in public: maybe it loses something in the translation, but I read some of your comments as "...only an idiot Crossair pilot could be so stupid to make that dumb mistake". Personally, I don't like the tone of that. Incidents will happen to you in the future, no one is perfect. I wish you good luck with your training and if your LX A340 loadsheet is wrong in the future, then that'll be my fault! Tchüss und grüssli |
Yep I agree, DCS99, that emotions run high these times. And I will chose a more tactful wording concerning my opinion next time. Everybody who felt attacked by the form, I'm really sorry about that.
But a more tactful wording doesn't wipe away my concerns about the future of Swiss. I hope everything will go the right way... and that everyone will do whatever is in his hands to achieve that goal "no delay". I'll do my part... and if it is that I moderate my tongue about that theme and keep the emotions part away from here... ;) Cheers! And let's be careful up there! |
This would have been the perfect opportunity for the Swissair pilots to enlighten the Crossair pilots with their infinite wisdom, unfortunaly they have decided not to share it with anybody. So much for that "great" safety culture of the bankrupt Swissair ! Did you ever think about your behaviour? Your way of approaching ex-SR pilots? chris :( |
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