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USA Today: UA forcibly remove random pax from flight
From USA Today, 10th April 2017
It appears from the report that United has a proactive approach to dealing with overbooked flights A United spokesperson confirmed in an email Sunday night that a passenger had been taken off a flight in Chicago. "Flight 3411 from Chicago to Louisville was overbooked," said the spokesperson. "After our team looked for volunteers, one customer refused to leave the aircraft voluntarily and law enforcement was asked to come to the gate. We apologize for the overbook situation. Further details on the removed customer should be directed to authorities." Video clip below https://www.facebook.com/audra.dicke...4378182069960/ |
How to get your PR dreadfully wrong.
I'm guessing that FD jumpseats and spare cabin crew seats were not available. |
"After our team looked for volunteers, one customer refused to leave the aircraft voluntarily and law enforcement was asked to come to the gate. We apologize for the overbook situation." I hope he absolutely rinses them in court. |
If he was seated on the aircraft why didnt they allow him to stay and offload the pax who hadn't got on the aircraft? - bad procedure by UA
Edit: I just noticed that they were offloaded so that staff could get on - well sorry but that is even worse. Although I do remember that when I was a flying spanner Customer Service people would often take it on themselves to give away my seat without recourse to Flt Ops - there was then the usual arguing at the gate when they were told to return my seat to me. |
Funny, I always thought that, as a paid passenger doing nothing wrong, I would get to my destination.
Did not know I was partly responsible in helping the carrier get crew to their shift starting location. |
BTDT
In my case the flight became limited due to weather prior to takeoff and a selection process was done by last on first off.. Fortunately somebody else had my last name and was encouraged to get off. In this case United probably should have canceled the flight for some reason and sorted out a solution in the terminal. That way everybody would be expected to get off, including the crew |
Did not know I was partly responsible in helping the carrier get crew to their shift starting location. What normally happens in those cases is as Jet II alluded to - the correct number of seats should be "blocked" ahead of time by operations so that they are not allocated to commercial passengers during the check in or boarding process......one reason no doubt being to avoid embarrasing incidents........ As to this incident, the timing/sequence of what really happened here and what status the staff had....might have to wait and see. Personally I'd be gobsmacked if it was genuinely a case of staff on personal standby tickets displacing genuine commercials, but I guess we might never know. |
And, it was not a United flight, it was a codeshare Jungle Jet ERJ-170 operated as United Express by Republic. As they say, it's a United flight until something happens, then all questions can be referred to 'our partner' Republic Airways.
That guy sure gets the drama queen award. Maybe he can join forces with Ravindra Gaikwad, the Indian MP who refused to deplane after finding out that he couldn't get a business class seat on an all economy flight. Another video of the incident here: https://twitter.com/stephenlaca/stat...33060293672961 Who were the law enforcement guys? U.S. Marshals from the ballcap logos? Their jackets just said 'Police' from what I saw in the videos. United has already updated their terms of service: https://twitter.com/gilbertjasono/st...262656/photo/1 |
Doesn't matter who was operating the flight. This is an international PR catastrophe for all US airlines - the video has gone global. If that was the only way of solving a problem, something is seriously, seriously wrong with the industry.
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Whichever way you look at it, this has to be a spectacular own-goal for United (regardless of which partner carrier's name is in little letters beside the door).
It would have been far cheaper just to up the incentive a bit more to motivate another passenger to deplane voluntarily (or even just let the passengers sit and stew until somebody cracked), compare to the cost of the reported 2-hour delay and a ton of negative publicity. And that's without whatever the guy gets awarded by the court ... |
And Emirates isn't allowed to carry laptops to the USA.....
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The way to get a volunteer is to keep raising the price, or change to cash rather than 'future travel' money. Or offer other incentives. Even if it cost them a couple of thousand, that would have been cheap compared to what this will cost them. An airline should never involuntary deny boarding to any paying passenger.
Money talks, it should never be dragged screaming and kicking down the aisle. |
The way to get a volunteer is to keep raising the price, or change to cash rather than 'future travel' money. Or offer other incentives. |
United, or who ever you are, you REALLY need to fire your mangers and hire those who still behave in a human manner, and know how to both implement, and if required, enforce civilised behavior, there is NO WAY myself or any of my staff will ever fly on one of your "Cattle Cars" !
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Chicago to Louisville is a 4 hour drive - by the time this ordeal was over, they could have just hired a car and sent their staff over by road. Narrow minded apes is all I can say
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They have form in bad PR. One of their most famous is: United Breaks Guitars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo
That stuff up was in 2008 and is still on the Internet. So many companies, not just airlines, have not yet discovered something called 'the camera phone'. So they deserve what they get. |
That will be a field day for the passenger lawyers with this video footage. That will cost UA way more than even a chartered 737 only for the standby crew transportation.
Hope that the decision making process in row 0 is better than this. |
Originally Posted by clunckdriver
(Post 9735053)
United, or who ever you are, you REALLY need to fire your mangers and hire those who still behave in a human manner, and know how to both implement, and if required, enforce civilised behavior, there is NO WAY myself or any of my staff will ever fly on one of your "Cattle Cars" !
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Originally Posted by Airbubba
(Post 9735004)
Who were the law enforcement guys? U.S. Marshals from the ballcap logos? Their jackets just said 'Police' from what I saw in the videos.
The officers who removed the man from the plane were Chicago Aviation Police personnel, not Chicago Police officers. Chicago Aviation Police are sworn officers who graduated from the Chicago Police Training Academy but they are not allowed to carry weapons. The Department of Aviation has yet to issue a statement. Here's the original Facebook poster's account of the incident: Bridges, a Louisville resident, gave her account of the flight Sunday night. Passengers were told at the gate that the flight was overbooked and United, offering $400 and a hotel stay, was looking for one volunteer to take another flight to Louisville at 3 p.m. Monday. Passengers were allowed to board the flight, Bridges said, and once the flight was filled those on the plane were told that four people needed to give up their seats to stand-by United employees that needed to be in Louisville on Monday for a flight. Passengers were told that the flight would not take off until the United crew had seats, Bridges said, and the offer was increased to $800, but no one volunteered. Then, she said, a manager came aboard the plane and said a computer would select four people to be taken off the flight. One couple was selected first and left the airplane, she said, before the man in the video was confronted. Bridges said the man became "very upset" and said that he was a doctor who needed to see patients at a hospital in the morning. The manager told him that security would be called if he did not leave willingly, Bridges said, and the man said he was calling his lawyer. One security official came and spoke with him, and then another security officer came when he still refused. Then, she said, a third security official came on the plane and threw the passenger against the armrest before dragging him out of the plane. The man was able to get back on the plane after initially being taken off – his face was bloody and he seemed disoriented, Bridges said, and he ran to the back of the plane. Passengers asked to get off the plane as a medical crew came on to deal with the passenger, she said, and passengers were then told to go back to the gate so that officials could "tidy up" the plane before taking off. Bridges said the man shown in the video was the only person who was forcibly removed. "Everyone was shocked and appalled," Bridges said. "There were several children on the flight as well that were very upset." So the guy got back on the plane after being forcibly removed? :confused: |
United will probably offer some free tickets to the guy:
Response to United Express Flight 3411 April 10, 2017 “This is an upsetting event to all of us here at United. I apologize for having to re-accommodate these customers. Our team is moving with a sense of urgency to work with the authorities and conduct our own detailed review of what happened. We are also reaching out to this passenger to talk directly to him and further address and resolve this situation.” – Oscar Munoz, CEO, United Airlines |
I am a Star Alliance Gold member who has, until now, used United and its partners when it was convenient and appropriate to do so. I was so angered by this story and video that I tried calling United to voice my concerns about this incident (I have been in the aviation business for more than 45 years). It is nigh impossible to talk to a real human via their "Customer Service" phone system so I submitted an email with my comments about this bizarre, needless -- and violent -- treatment of a customer (and suggestions on how to avoid similar events in the future).
I made it clear to United that I will no longer fly on United Airlines or any of its partners and I will encourage others to do the same -- at the very least until United makes a very public apology and assures its customers that this kind of event will NEVER be handled this way again. This incident shows a significant need for customer service training, new SOPs -- and of course some obvious PR lessons must be learned. Almost inexplicable behavior. |
The BBC just picked up the story. I'll bet almost every media organization worldwide will carry the story. Terrible PR for United.
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Land of the Free!?
Only in US.
Anyway, some PAX walked of in discust . Problem solved. |
Bottom line is that it's United's aircraft. It would have been far better to deny boarding in the first place than to deboard a passenger, but the incident was escalated by the passenger refusing to leave the aircraft once told that he would not be accommodated on that flight.
I think it will set a terrible precedent if this passenger is rewarded for his behavior. The lesson learned will be that defiance of flight and ground crew and abusive behavior will get you want you want. |
How is it possible to board more pax than you can have?! They must have known that dead heading crew would take this flight. This should have been taking care of at the gate, not in the plane.
With that, you never can be sure to take a flight even when you've paid the full price? UA is not having the best news these days... |
'I think it will set a terrible precedent if this passenger is rewarded for his behaviour.'
Better to set the precedent that it's acceptable to assault your customers? |
twb3
You're kidding, right? |
I`m sure ALL DOCTORS will think twice now when the question is asked " Is there any Doctors on board ? " Shame , shame , shame on United. The land of the free and home of the brave has turned into the land of the terrorised and the home of the stupid.
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The rudest people in uniform I have seen on this planet were in the US.
Be it police, flight attendants, custom officers, security personal whatever. |
Originally Posted by twb3
(Post 9735163)
It would have been far better to deny boarding in the first place than to deboard a passenger, but the incident was escalated by the passenger refusing to leave the aircraft once told that he would not be accommodated on that flight.
I think it will set a terrible precedent if this passenger is rewarded for his behavior. The lesson learned will be that defiance of flight and ground crew and abusive behavior will get you want you want. United have well and truly shot themselves in the foot on this occasion. |
Originally Posted by rotornut
(Post 9735135)
The BBC just picked up the story. I'll bet almost every media organization worldwide will carry the story. Terrible PR for United.
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Originally Posted by I-FORD
(Post 9735188)
When Law Enforcement Officers ask or order you to leave an airplane you comply. When airline employes ask or order you to do something on a plane you comply. Any question is resolved afterwards, out of the vehicle. Some Passengers think that buying a ticket entitles them to do whatever they want on board an airplane, it is not just so.
Volunteer: "A person who freely offers to take part in an enterprise or undertake a task." |
Originally Posted by I-FORD
(Post 9735188)
Some Passengers think that buying a ticket entitles them to do whatever they want on board an airplane, it is not just so.
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Simple question for you guys in the industry
Why does there ever need to be an involuntary removal? Surely you just raise the compensation until you get enough volunteers? I'm sure at $10K someone would have volunteered. Or is it just the case the airline there's some law that says after x compensation is offered, you can do involuntary, and in this case United was too tight? |
There is a limit to what airline employees can ask. Would you obey if an airline employee told you to jump out of an airborne aircraft. Of course not. It all depends on what is the definition of reasonable. It would seem to be unreasonable to ask a doctor who had business the following day to deplane.
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'Unruly behaviour is more and more widespread. Sometimes it needs to be dealt with the way we see in the video. Not the first nor the last.'
Not Bashar Assad. A doctor going to work..... |
Simple question for you guys in the industry Why does there ever need to be an involuntary removal? I am curious why security (police) were required for what should have been an operational matter. This situation (which hasn't been fully explained) superficiously seems to be a management failure, and by that I mean how the specific situation was managed. Any experienced pilot or crew member will tell You there are many ways to "skin a cat" and resolve a difficult situation. Dragging a passenger down the aisle by their heels wouldn't be a sensible resolution for most of them, as United are no doubt about to find out. |
I am curious why security (police) were required for what should have been an operational matter. Dragging a pax down the aisle is a measure of last resort. UA has customer service personnel trained to deal with situations such as removal, there are protocols on how to identify the unlucky pax. That they got to that level means the person picked didn't play ball. |
It does look like a simple case of assault . No violence was being offered by the passenger. I wonder how far these Security officials would have gone to remove the guy? Taser? Shoot him?
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Dragging a pax down the aisle is a measure of last resort. UA has customer service personnel trained to deal with situations such as removal, there are protocols on how to identify the unlucky pax. That they got to that level means the person picked didn't play ball. |
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