United's Contract of Carriage

It talks about "denying boarding," but this pax had already boarded.

Agreed: it is a heartbreaking phenomena where fear filled Americans believe that compliance to maintain order is to be patriotic. In short, my country has gone :mad: insane. Guys like Jefferson and Patrick Henry would be waterboarded and in some Federal prison...
ON TOPIC: I fly. Lots. Not on UA anymore. I resisted them, now I LOATH them. I say "no" to police state tactics used by corporations, and I say it with my $$.
Much respects to all you pro drivers and crew supporting the passengers right to not be battered. :)
Back to lurking for another 4 years or so.

When you are in a hole, stop digging. The moment ground staff found out that no one wanted to give up their seat, the plan to replace four paying pax with company men should have been ditched. No ifs or buts.
United Breaks People is the next hit song.

Sat in his seat? Surely everyone sat in their seats should be removed? If you mean interfering with dead heading company employees... they aren't members of that flight's crew.

According to the police report:

Did he just pitch a fit at the wrong time and place and the police overreacted? Or did his behavior become increasingly bizarre signaling an episode of some mental disorder?

Journey Man,

If said passenger fell foul of the random tombolla and refused to leave as requested by crew, then he could potentially be non-compliant on the clause 'failing to comply with the duties of the members of the flight crew'

Port

There's a good chance the DH crew was onboard to head to assignments. Missing that flight potentially meant cancelling subsequent flights for significant numbers of pax. Moving crew around in the cabin is a part of airline life.

Airbubba We have no means of knowing what pressures of work and family this man was under. We cannot begin to judge him.

United have a proven track record in customer service. :eek:

Yes they do, and it's not good. :E

I imagine that this is going to be quite a mess to sort out....

First, regarding whether or not United offloaded the passenger within the remit of their Ts and Cs. Second if the Responsibility for the police being called will fall at the customer services/ complaint handling of United or Republic (who operated the flight) and thirdly, and most difficult if the physical injuries, and moral damage was caused by United or the Police service, I think that there is going to be a hell of a lot of finger pointing and posturing before any setlement is made. I also wonder if United/Republic/both will take the Police service to court for damages over this incident, as ultimately, the responsibility for the passengers injuries must lay at the feet of the officers on the aircraft.

I have no idea about my next question, as this resulted in the injury of a passenger onboard a US reg aircraft, will the NTSB get involved and make a report on the incident? or do they only care when the engines are running?

I'll take that as a "no", then ... :ugh:

HEMS driver:

...but strictly speaking, he was a potential threat to safety. In this mess created by UA, he refused to vacate a seat needed by someone else. No takeoff without all being seated.

Was this explained to him?

grizzled:

Correct! It's an absolute gift.

I'm not sure what I find more bizarre, the actions of these UAL representatives or posters trying to justify their actions! 3 burly men against a 69 year old doctor!

United didn't physically manhandle the customer and most likely did not instruct the officers to use violence...... or do you think they were like the M in the James Bond films.... "Make it look like an accident 007"?

United's contract of carriage. It is only a mere 36876 words . Perhaps somebody can find a clause which alllows an airline to behave like this.
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspx

ICAO Annex 13 applies from the time that anyone boards an aircraft with the intention of flight.

But it specifically excludes injuries to those on board that have been inflicted by other persons.

This is just completely crazy to me.

UA are in the news apologizing for the 'overbook situation'. What overbook situation?

It sounds like there was a need between post-boarding and pre-departure to suddenly create 4 seats for staff on STANDBY.

That is not an overbook situation.

I think they only got as far as RNAV 5 before he was hauled off...

Is it really UA's fault? Is it not the fault of the police persons who got excessively rough and physical? Why did their training not kick in and give them second thoughts on using strong arm tactics? Why did those police persons not suggest to the CC that they were not prepared to use physical force of that degree? And suggest to the CC that a more civilised solution should be found?

newfoundglory

I was just thinking the same thing: The CEO is apologizing for the wrong thing. It's a function of the power and speed of social media today that companies fall behind so quickly (in terms of PR ramifications) and then simply cannot overcome the tsunami.

Having said that, I'm sure the Chief Spin Docs at UA are with the CEO right now, trying to compose some "press releases" (which today don't involve the "press" at all) and come up with a damage control strategy, which is also nearly impossible today due to the internet.

The younger folks on here should look up "Marshall McLuhan"...