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-   -   Puerto Carreno cargo 722 crash (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/588549-puerto-carreno-cargo-722-crash.html)

JanetFlight 21st Dec 2016 11:03

Remember UTAGE at Cotonou...lots of similarities.
Hot, Heavy, Full loaded 722, It hapened before, still happens at Africa...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjyDvHNr5LU
BTW, at "las2Orillas" clip we can see an explosion at second 29th.

noflynomore 21st Dec 2016 11:15


At the expense of the lives of this crew.
Perhaps worth balancing that by pointing out the crew did not have to participate in this stupidity. This was purely Darwinism in action for the second time in a month in S America.
After all, there is a difference between handling guns and actually playing Russian Roulette.
This company evidently made a habit of the latter. The spectators knew it, a small crowd was were waiting for - anticipating - spectacular video footage. These 727 take-offs were evidently a well known event that drew numbers of spectators. How long had the been doing this I wonder?
No amount of pressure on a crew can excuse taking part in something like that. Of course management must shoulder much of the blame but had the crew refused that loading there would have been no such flight and no such accident.

Council Van 21st Dec 2016 11:18

In one of the videos of the crash scene it shows some one who appears to be a member of the crew alive, lying on the ground looking as if he does not have a scratch on him. One can only wonder how he has managed to survive such a catastrophic impact. Hopefully any surviving crew make a quick and full recovery.

Flava Saver 21st Dec 2016 11:25

It would seem like the RH outer Slat/s & wing would of smacked that existing tree & construction possibly, deforming the outer wing. Footage depicts it in a right hand turn prior to impact too. Simply unbelievable.

What a sad loss of life, and of a beautiful airliner too. RIP.

MATELO 21st Dec 2016 11:37

An awful lot of video footage captured from a "remote" part of the country.

....it may have been a rare occurrence seeing a jet, however, it was as though they were expecting something to happen.

2efiss 21st Dec 2016 12:35

See fuel ouring from right wing after hitting first set of concrete fence posts

sandos 21st Dec 2016 12:48

Actually I thought I saw something pouring even before it hit the fence, but i now think its an illusion, its the white fuselage showing between the wing and flaps. Combined with the rest of the fuselage it happens to look like something trailing the airplane?

MarkerInbound 21st Dec 2016 13:00


Is it fully powered flight controls without any manual reversion on the 727? Could it be severed hydraulic lines that finally brought it down.
Seven Twos have manual reversion except for the rudder which has its own standby hydraulic system if system A and B fail.

MarkerInbound 21st Dec 2016 13:46


Isn't 6000ft a bit short for a fully loaded 727, even at sea level ?
It's really hard to define "a fully loaded 727." Boeing had all sorts of engine and landing gear and weight combinations. I flew that tail in a prior life in the US. It was built for Air Jamaica with -15s, a max TO weight of 197,000 lbs and max landing weight of 164,000 lbs. Quick look at the charts, SL, flaps 15, 27c says the runway limit is about 160,000 pounds.

semperfubar 21st Dec 2016 14:07

Well "Ese avión boto una llanta" means that " That plane dropped a wheel"...as in came off.

Looks like overload to me. And they probably did it often ...Sad and stupid.

The Ancient Geek 21st Dec 2016 14:22

Making a steep turn at low level and low speed is never a good idea.
If they had climbed straight ahead, even at that minimal rate of climb, they might have been able to nurse it around gently and land back.

TioPablo 21st Dec 2016 14:26


Originally Posted by Iron Duck (Post 9616338)
- you can also see that the 727 has knocked down the reinforced concrete fence posts on both sides of the road. That must have hurt a bit. It's perhaps surprising the aircraft stayed airborne as long as it did. As it banks to the right it's clearly trailing vapour, which appears to thicken in the final second or so.

I don't speak Spanish and don't understand what the spectators were saying but they keep repeating a particular phrase. Can anyone translate this, please? I'm amazed one of them didn't get clouted.

Hereby the requested translation:

First footage

-Dude, that plane lost a tire! That plane lost a tire!

Second footage before the actual crash

-The plane is coming back, let's get out of here.
-There it comes turning, my God.
-It is dumping fuel in case it crashes.
-It is going to crash, oh my God.
-Keep filming, keep filming.
-Those people are dead.
-This **** cannot be true.
-We're going over there...
-No brother, where?
-There, to save the people...

EstorilM 21st Dec 2016 15:06

MarkerInbound

Making a steep turn at low level and low speed is never a good idea.
If they had climbed straight ahead, even at that minimal rate of climb, they might have been able to nurse it around gently and land back.
I noticed this as well, but it doesn't add up at all.

Personally, I highly doubt this was an intentional control input. Considering they must have realized early on, that they were at or beyond the performance envelope for the aircraft, there's about a zero percent chance any pilot would maneuver like that. In fact, you'd want to nurse the aircraft around slowly - or put it down somewhere (anywhere) if you're unable to make the turn.

This kinda reminds me of American 191. Is it possible that some sort of damage had allowed asymmetrical slat retraction on one wing? That diving bank angle just looks like a wing stall or something damage-induced.

I'm not sure what type of hydraulic failure could allow this, but maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in for me.

Hotel Tango 21st Dec 2016 17:23


Making a steep turn at low level and low speed is never a good idea.
If they had climbed straight ahead, even at that minimal rate of climb, they might have been able to nurse it around gently and land back.
Yes, but do we know for sure that the turn was intended?

Iron Duck 21st Dec 2016 18:06

@ Hotel Tango


Yes, but do we know for sure that the turn was intended?
If the right wing clouted that black structure, whatever it is, the damage to slats, flaps or aileron might well have rendered the turn uncontrollable. Looking at the video it appears the initial turn to the right is relatively gentle but steepens as the aircraft turns through 180 degrees, at which point it appears to me the aircraft stalls and drops its right wing further. Perhaps trading speed for height stalled the damaged wing at a higher airspeed than expected, rather like the Chicago DC-10.

Or, the engine that burped finally failed, and at that speed and weight, and with flap damage, etc., the 727 could no longer be kept flying.

Not that there would seem to be a lot to learn from this event, mind. Yes, it does appear that Aerosucre takeoffs were a spectator sport, and given the proliferation of 'exciting' Aerosucre takeoff videos on YouTube and elsewhere, operating right on the edge of the envelope with no margin for error or unexpected performance loss appears to be normal for these chaps - the normalisation of deviation, indeed. Well, if you're going to push your luck like that, eventually something like this will happen.

Thanks for the translations, BTW.

flight_mode 21st Dec 2016 18:35

Did it hit a building?

On this video of a previous takeoff there's an old stone building to the right of the centreline at 15 seconds.

On the accident flight from this angle as the aircraft passes over both fences while just kicking up dust and then a whole of thick black dust is thrown out from 30 seconds.

At 34 seconds on this video with your volume up you can hear an impact and see the debris.

Edit to say IronDuck beat me to it.

Hotel Tango 21st Dec 2016 19:17

@ Iron Duck

Exactly! That was my point to The Ancient Geek . It may well not have been a "controlled" turn.

Gauges and Dials 21st Dec 2016 19:45

Lamia is a different story
 
Lamia went out of business because their sole aircraft was destroyed and a number of their crew, including the owner, were killed

rogerlondon 21st Dec 2016 19:52

Several have commented about the small building, lastly Flight Mode:

There appears to be human movement within that small building in the short 31sec clip. Perhaps watching the take-offs? Someone moves across the window line at 22sec.

Was anyone in there during the accident?

The Ancient Geek 21st Dec 2016 20:11

I agree that there should be doubts about whether the turn was intentional, certainly it was very unwise if intended. Only a readout of the FDR will reveal the truth.
The primary cause, of course, appears to be a serious case of overloading but has the true weight of each item been declared, there have been several cases in the past of shennanegins in freight handling.


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