Easy Strike?
 

Holidaymakers face flights chaos as easyJet pilots plot strike action

I think Balpa are lacking the chops to have a strike, I think that they hope most of the pilots to go for the middle ground:

How much would the "short of a strike" do?

But offering the middle ground I guess hoping that most of the pilots go for that so they don't have to go for the full blown strike.

Is that the short pregnancy that is not the full blown to termination pregnancy?;)

Just to be clear:

BALPA is considering a strike in one UK airline "..... for industrial action over complaints of rising levels of fatigue that union officials insist risk “serious health and safety concerns”.

This is a UK airline in the British airline industry that is operating within EASA FTL's that are in force by all UK airlines. I admit I do not know the in-depth internal rostering practices of ez, or other UK airlines. I hear there is great opposition to the new EASA FTL's. Do these problems exist in any other UK airline? If so, why not a class action against EASA? Is ez really the correct and fruitful target?
If it is the case that this has come about after a year of discussions it is a sad refection on one or both parties.
When I used to have disputes with managers about working practices I always had a couple of suggestions to present whereby the productivity was equal, or even better, but in a more humane manner. A win win. They were supposed to explain why they were unacceptable. Usually it went in one ear and straight through. There would have been too much loss of face to have agreed. And that was the stumbling point. But don't forget the oft quoted addict that "my door is always open for suggestions." Shame the mind wasn't as well.
If this is indeed a lifestyle rostering issue then complaining will never win the day if it's legal. If an alternative scheme can be offered then the touchy/feely orange cuddly management will have to justify rejecting it. Is that the case; from the inside?

RAT, they said "short OF a strike". The pregnancy analogy does not hold up. Actions short of a strike could include malicious compliance, etc.

For me this is far too late. Balpa have let EastJet ruin the industry.

The CC in the mid 2000s refused to do anything about Flexi Crew and that's what let the rot set in.

I watched the then CC chairman let himself get completely stitched up by the BA CC at an ADC. Seeing the CC Chairman of the 2nd largest pilot workforce in the UK behave so ineptly I knew then that the industry in Europe was doomed.

Never going to happen.

Move on folks, nothing to see here...

Very wise, CaptainProp. Don't be so sure. EASA FTL's are causing AME's to strike, due to the disinterest of the CAA in the burgeoning fatigue problem in short-haul carriers. (Prop short-haul does not generate the problems that jet short/medium haul does, for a good many reasons.)

So in our little UK aviation world, we find doctors talking about striking. Don't tell me that can't happen. In my own company, fatigue sickness has far exceeded previous records. So striking is on the agenda, but withdrawal of labour is happening now on an unprecedented scale.

And just how big are easyJet on a scale of things? Bigger than BA, bigger than Thomson, Thomas Cook, Monarch, and far far bigger than any turboprop airlines.

The contract I signed up to says that I can be rostered up to CAP371 limits. Now EASA limits are in force my hours available for work have increased with no apparent change of contract or increase in salary. I recon the Company are able to get an extra days work out of me in 7 days and sometimes are doing so. This summer has been the busiest for some time.

It's a limit, not a target. However pilots have to report fatigued, and if they are fatigued then do not be pressured by crewing to work.

The airlines have to take action if rosters are proving to be fatiguing. If you do not go off fatigued then they will keep screwing you into the ground.

Whether you go on strike is academic, what the industry needs is for pilots who are fatigued to say so and not fly. That requires a bit of backbone, as does going on strike.

There does seem to be a bit of 'push back' against some of the current rosters by both CC and pilots.

I was delayed on a flight out of Amsterdam a couple of weeks back (AMS based aircraft and crew). Aircraft arrived on stand 5 minutes late on the previous sector from Basel, leaving 30 minutes to turn round for the flight to Gatwick (quite feasible when using the low-cost 'H' gates at Schipol). Pax were called to the gate before the aircraft was on stand, but left queuing for 30 minutes, then at the scheduled departure time, the gate staff announced there would be a delay as CC 'had already had a long day and needed a meal break'
I was told that some EZY pilots are insisting that breaks are taken, even if this means delaying the flight.
I'd not come across this before

excellent move. I wonder how the office staff who make these schedules would feel if their office schedules did not allow them to take a lunch break or tea break.

(a) During the FDP there shall be the opportunity for a meal and drink in order to avoid any detriment to a crew member’s performance, especially when the FDP exceeds 6 hours.
ORO.FTL.240

Thank God there are still some Captains with enough integrity to ensure the welfare of their crew. Those poor cc work without a break for hours on end esp on short flights and often have no time to eat.
Bravo the Captain!

The problem is airline managers view squishy human beings as computers and machines, because that's what their management textbook gave them as a toolset.

Unfortunately while the Autopilot is still good to go at the end of 9 hours of flying over 3 sectors, I, am slightly tired. Especially on day seven.

EASA has been a joke. If you don't work for a reputable company, you're toast. Incidents of Stress and Anxiety related illness from colleagues at my old airline is through the roof. Stress and Anxiety a symptom of fatigue? Funny old thing!

Every airline reporting increased sickness. That's just lazy work shy pilots. Not the new stupid work rules.

Then throw in to this toxic mix variability of schedule and the effect that has on home life. Plus the general treatment from an anonymous "crew scheduler" and the situation is untenable.

What do the CAA do?

I for one applaud Easy pilots. Go get 'em, and if it means some people can't fly to Malaga for £30 then so be it, because flying to Malaga doesn't and shouldn't cost £30.

RHS, I think you are absolutely spot on..

I would bet my bottom dollar/euro that the damned committee that formulated these new FTLs didn't ever damned well work them themselves to see how dangerously tired they felt after 6 or 7 days flying..

(a) During the FDP there shall be the opportunity for a meal and drink in order to avoid any detriment to a crew member’s performance, especially when the FDP exceeds 6 hours.
ORO.FTL.240

Once again a classic example of the reality of the Ops manual saying one thing, for the digestion of the XAA to sign it off, and what happens everyday on board. I used to fly for an operator that had such statements in the manual and then had 5 short sector days with no time what so ever for other than a grabbed glass of water and a biscuit as the CA's passed in & out of the galley doing full service 5 times in 45 mins each. That, plus the rapid turnaround with full security check, and 8 hours passed with no significant sustenance. XAA's really do need to wake up and take their heads out if the sand.
This topic about how poor on board working conditions are compared to ground jobs, and as directed by the 'workers' directive' has been debated for 20 years with no progress.

Rhs - every airline reporting increased sickness? Your talking every airline in Europe? Not mine UK AOC. Remember most EU airlines had bee n working to near similar limits under sub part Q
Meal break - what was in CAP before?. The EASA regulation now supports the Commander making that (sound) decision
Roy Budd is the extra fatigue due to EASA or other factors, increased aircraft, attrition etc
Is it the increased duty hours or the no early rules or increased FDP on earlies or a combo of all and some pi££ed off (hard working) pilots looking for a pay rise?

Personally I would say pay doesn't come into it. The most telling part of EASA FTL for me is that a day off is now called an extended recovery period. During my days off that is all I am trying to achieve and having to actively manage my sleep patterns to try and prepare for the next working block. Actually enjoying your day off or doing anything meaningful at home is not possible so having extra cash is not a factor. Long earlies are what I find difficult to cope with, and then on my extended recovery period my body still wants to get up at 4am which disrupts my sleep patterns.This can last well into the next working block , which may include long afternoon flights such as Cyprus.
I have had fatigue induced sickness twice this summer and also have reported fatigued on several occassions. The company see fatigue limits as a rostering target and continually press to test with the work patterns, and this is with a reasonabe scheduling agreement.
I wish the Easy pilots luck with their industrial action but until other european carriers start reporting similar problems then EASA will do nothing.

Mr Angry - It has nothing to do with pay.

Tubby Linton sums it up very nicely.

Can I also add that this is not about pay, it is about fatigue, safety and sustainable working rosters so that someone joining in their 20's is able to fly a full time career at easyJet if that is what they would like. Not feeling like the only way to survive long term is go part time.

the only way to survive long term is go part time.

Been there, down that. No wife, or only one, no kids = possible. And it can be fun. Otherwise????

Mr Angry, you miss my point.

Please tell me you AOC so I can promptly apply? And I work for one of the reputable big boys who does at least try to help their staff, and even I have seen an increase in fatigue under EASA. It is simply unsustainable.

EASA was written to give the crew a say, and emplace extreme limits. In reality. The airlines use EASA as a target, and try calling in sick. I have multiple friends who have received phone calls from senior managers demanding they explain the personal circumstances at home, asking deeply prying questions, challenging their decisions about discretion, all in the name of "helping" the employee deal with the fatigue issue.

EASA was written in some wimsical, fairy tale world of wonderful airline managers. It does not translate.

So once again, good on the EZY guys and gals. Best of luck!

Well done to the journalists and editors at the The Sun.... They have gotten to the real reason for the strike... Easyjet pilots simply wish to bring misery to families over the October School Break.

incidentally, this sort of ****ty journalism can actually work in the favour of those wishing to strike as this will bring rpessure on the airline to resolve the matter quickly as passengers will be nervous about booking.... so, as I said.... Well done the The Sun

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/176266...k-from-school/

Hey there Purley boy, you clearly just wanted a reaction.
Not much point in trying to get a pay hike if you're dead because of a fatal error due to being knackered, or getting a fatigue related condition that cans your medical.
I dread to think how many crew have had car accidents or near misses whilst driving home after day six or seven. Sadly, I fear there will be many more.
More hours at work, more non flying admin being shovelled onto crew to do.. Sadly the regulators don't appear to come along to observe the long fatiguing flights, or join us for a pleasant little night IBZ etc
It ain't going to change I'm afraid. I wish I could escape.

Be grateful Fokker that you are the north side of forty and are not going to have to do this for almost forty years. I very much doubt that a cadet joining now in their early twenties will still be flying in their late fifties.
It does bring into question the whole model of low cost airlines and cadets. To start, a very large expenditure for the training plus a student loan for a degree to pay off when they really want to be saving for somewhere to live. Then having been trained, month after month of hard work with no social life ,then a command and more of the same ,and then finally burnt out and hopefully not so medically damaged that they cannot find alternative employment.
Trying to reinvent yourself in your late thirties or early forties with a new career will take some planning or a very expensive loss of licence policy. I can see a bubble developing in the next ten to fifteen years of medically unfit pilots who have been run into the ground by low cost flying and EASA FTL. Meanwhile the airlines will have made large profits and paid their senior management huge bonuses. If you work out an escape plan please send me a pm.

One of the contributers to this thread is ex, perhaps current, crewing/rostering of known (to me) anti pilot views. But to move on..

Andrew Haines, CAA Chief Exec, on record: "There is no doubt fatigue is an issue but, at the moment, the evidence we need isn't there, because pilots don't tend to report it".

The reasons why pilots don't report fatigue have been posted previously; as have the CAA approved Doctor's (AME's) concerns.

But to those non industry readers of this thread; the industry regulator is concerned about fatigue in pilots, the Doctors who monitor pilots health and have a legal responsibility to the regulator to monitor pilots health are concerned about fatigue. Easyjet, one of the largest UK/European airlines, could potentially be on strike becasue of fatigue concerns.

As ever in the aviation industry/service industry, until the there is an incident involving loss of life on the scale of multiples, nothing will happen.

I have heard (rumours) of lads at work calling in fatigued.

A few days later they are summoned to a meeting and ordered into changing their sickness reason from fatigue to something else so the authorities dont need to be informed....

Like i said rumours, but no smoke without fire i say.

That type of meeting should be recorded with your phone in your pocket and accidentally leaked to the media (but real media, not the S*n)

Imagine the rosters & working hours of UK train drivers being changed/worsened without consultation & agreement of the main union? Highly unlikely; same in France, Germany, Italy. It would not be enforceable. If they were imposed (see junior doctors) then the kick-back would be serious. So where was ECA while this fiasco was being developed in some darkened room deep in the bowls of Brussels? Where are they now? Why is ez the pathfinder in this campaign? What is the point of ECA if they are not banging the drum on this? It is an Europe wide issue for the industry. ECA is the Europe wide union/association for the industry. EASA is on the other side of the table for the Europe wide industry. Why are they not in discussion and agreement before this mess?

Tubby / Gypsy simple question simple answer - thanks.
Lucky Strike - anti pilot views! My post mentioned ( hard working) pilots and gave information on meal breaks that EASA bought in and CAP371 ( from Douglas Bader days) didn't have. Yes I like to go fishing but if you take the bait doesn't mean to say I'm anti. I suspect a lot of posters know me might disagree with your comment.
As RHS states there are some UK AOC's who have worked hard with the CAA, Pilots, Union and are (trying) to mitigate some of not so nice EASA limits by having agreement, best practice, training etc. So at my AOC the impact was negligible, the transition smooth, the roster patterns in my view better ( for the crews not the airline) and back to my original comment sickness levels the same!
So accepting I might also have taken RHS's bait please don't tar all airlines with the same brush��

The reasons why pilots don't report fatigue have been posted previously;

And one of those might be zero-hour self-employed pilots. No fly no pay.

My Bait? Honestly, I find it hard to imagine you work for an airline where life has improved under EASA?

Lucky strike sums it up. Unless you have worked 7 straight days of Lates to earlies, in an enclosed, noise environment, with terrible food, at altitude, being irradiated, away from any means whatsoever of contacting your family if they need you, and the stress that brings, you can't really comment.

I have A LOT of respect for my colleagues in the office, and they do a difficult job to make an operation run, with limited resource. So this isn't a dig at ground staff.

I highly, highly doubt if you spoke to 90% of the crew at your AOC they would share the same views as you on EASA. Regardless to how you view it on paper, we are on the coal front.

Back to the thread however.

RHS - these comments are going too far to be believable

'... Unless you have worked 7 straight days of Lates to earlies, in an enclosed, noise environment, with terrible food, at altitude, being irradiated, away from any means whatsoever of contacting your family if they need you, and the stress that brings, you can't really comment.'

'worked 7 straight days of Lates to earlies' - Nobody is operating to these conditions - unless you can show me a roster to prove it?
'in an enclosed, noise environment, ... at altitude,' - isn't that what being a pilot is all about! which you knew when you chose the profession, did you not?
'with terrible food' - isn't most airline food terrible, besides you can bring your own if you're that concerned.
'away from any means whatsoever of contacting your family if they need you, - this is the same for the passengers and what you knew before you started. Once landed we live in the modern world so that's rubbish.

Stiglet. Don't want to post my roster online. But would happily show you over a beer.

Yes I did. I signed up knowing that. It doesn't make it any easier. And I was making the point it's very different to an office job.

Of course we have modern means of communication. Passengers have the ability to cancel a flight, or get off on the other end. We fly regardless of your daughters first day at school, your mother awaiting test results etc. Passengers deal with it once in a blue moon. We deal with it once or twice a month. So not complete rubbish.

Crew food is what is supplied to me. I don't have a choice on it. Unlike an office worker. Who does have a choice.

I'm not knocking the job. I love it. I'm purely pointing out the fatiguing aspects of our job that other industries don't have.

stigelt - I can see why you might have raised eyebrows (I'm struggling with the comms argument, but I'm old school), nevertheless:

True. Now you may find that acceptable if you're exposed to airline food on an occasional basis (FWIW I don't think it is), but if it's part of your diet every working day it becomes less acceptable and more of a health hazard. As RHS has pointed out unlike other jobs there's not really the option to go and dine at a healthier establishment.

For some who work long shorthaul shifts that would mean carrying possibly 2/3 DfT compliant meals every day through security...I'm sure some do it but again is it healthy long term? It would generate the sort of fatiguing hassle that RHS is on about.

EASA rules and flying rosters are getting really challenging now. However;

You do have a choice about food. It is easy enough to prepare a salad or a couple of rounds of sandwiches in a tupperware box the night before. (Or buy same from M&S). I make my own and add a small tub of nuts and a couple of pieces of fruit. Just don't bring drinks or yoghurts as most security gates have a problem with those.

'Being contactable by your family' : I suspect what is really meant here is being able to take days off at short notice to deal with family issues? In the BBC we used to have 2 emergency days off per year that could be invoked at very short notice - an idea for the Company Councils perhaps? A family that needs to constantly phone you to resolve day to day problems probably needs reorganising ! Having said that, child care can be a nightmare if both parents work.

If you are fatigued, for goodness sake put in a report. You don't have to refuse to fly. I often put a report in if I was fatigued at some point in the day - or even when driving home - and mitigated it by drinking coffee, or taking controlled rest etc. But we MUST put the reports in. The fatigue does not have to be caused by the company either. Neighbour's noisy barbecue/party is a legitimate reason if you were unable to sleep. The CAA should have a depository for us to report fatigue to them if we don't want to go through our company.

A Cabin manager once said to me "but if we put in a fatigue report it will show that we can't cope" EXACTLY !!

The CCs and Unions - of both pilots and cabin crews - should be much stronger over fatigue and rostering - but to do this they will need OUR support and votes. Why we have not had a general walk-out over this is beyond me. Have the unions and XAAs all been nobbled? We need unions more like those in the railways.

Whilst that might work at an airline that only does " day trips" how do you think that would work at an airline that does night stops and/or multi day short haul tours, often with minimum rest on the nightstop ( where time is short and chances are the locals haven't even heard of M&S, let alone have one nearby).

The problems of crew food and healthy eating is a ongoing problem at at least one airline I know of.

Never done it myself, but i met few with cabin crew that had basically a suitcase full of food and only the bare necessities for a 5 day (longest we do) trip. Kinda weird to rarely leave the hotel and just live outta your suitcase, but actually nearly understandable with the pay they get.

Our CC aren't allowed checked bags on Shorthaul but I know some of our longhaul CC do the same on short longhaul trips, either for reasons of economy or because they don't trust the local food...

TBH if the suggestion is the only way crew can guarantee a sensible diet is to drag half of M&S around with them then the flight and cabin crew side of the industry is farked. Can you imagine the office staff being told to bring a suitcase of food into work (and that's not a pop at office staff, just a comparison)?

Anyhow I'll leave it there and wish our Company Council had been more robust in their response to the EASA regs... so back to flying hours and best of luck to the Easyjet pilots....