PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Rumours & News (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news-13/)
-   -   AA FO Fails Breathalyzer, Arrested (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/576703-aa-fo-fails-breathalyzer-arrested.html)

simon001 26th Mar 2016 17:13

AA FO Fails Breathalyzer, Arrested
 
American Airlines Pilot Arrested After Failing Breathalyzer Test at Detroit Airport - ABC News

Does this effectively terminate an airline pilot's career, especially as a 51 year old FO?

How common are breathalyzer tests for airline pilots in the US?

Other countries?

Are the tests truly random or do the companies observe pilot behaviour?

Sky7 26th Mar 2016 18:52

It depends on the company. They are not so common as in the EU bit depending on the severity one can have termination from flying for good

core_dump 26th Mar 2016 18:52

He was reported by TSA because of the way he was acting. So this case didn't have anything to do with random tests nor an observation by company.

Here's the part that has me scratching my head: After the FO was handcuffed on the apron in full view of the passengers, the flight was cancelled due to a "problem with the co-pilot chair". Source. I wonder what problem that might have been? Either the "problem with the chair" was the simple fact that it was now unoccupied, or possibly the chair was... soiled.

oyster cracker 26th Mar 2016 19:16

Apparently an E 190 F/O.

Huck 26th Mar 2016 23:53

That's why they talk to us in screening. It ain't to be nice.

parabellum 27th Mar 2016 04:35

What is it with the handcuffs? Once it is established the FO was unarmed and had not committed a violent crime surely he can be left uncuffed? If he attempts to run away they can just shoot him.

grounded27 27th Mar 2016 04:40

.04 you are probably fired and reported to the FAA, .02-.04 removed from service and many operators would put you on a program, some returned to service simply after you blow under .02.

sb_sfo 27th Mar 2016 04:47

At a previous airline employer, there was a breath tester in ops. Asian carrier

AtomKraft 27th Mar 2016 05:10

Where I work, we are breathalysed on report, 100% of the time.

Got to blow zero.:rolleyes:

West Coast 27th Mar 2016 05:16

About Us

It's not necessarily the end of the pilots career. HIMS has helped many pilots return to flying.

twb3 27th Mar 2016 06:00

Handcuffing is a standard part of every arrest in the US, regardless of the crime charged.

CaptainProp 27th Mar 2016 06:29


Where I work, we are breathalysed on report, 100%
Really?! Never heard of that before. Nothing wrong with it in my opinion just never seen that being done anywhere else. Is that in Europe or?

CP

Hydromet 27th Mar 2016 06:43


Got to blow zero.
I thought it was possible to blow a quite low figure without having drunk any alcohol, which was the reason for choosing <.02. Is this so?

compressor stall 27th Mar 2016 09:51

I can't speak for every breathalyser from around the globe, but the ones used in this country are unreliable below 0.02%, hence that is made the threshold.

anson harris 27th Mar 2016 11:41

I must be missing something, but every time a US pilot is arrested in Europe for being over the limit, there's massive outrage on PPRUNE. No sign of it here?

unworry 27th Mar 2016 11:52


Originally Posted by anson harris
I must be missing something, but every time a US pilot is arrested in Europe for being over the limit, there's massive outrage on PPRuNe. No sign of it here?

Bad enough the fellow presented to the flight deck drunk, but soiling his seat? Outrageous! :uhoh:

Srsly, I'm appalled not only with a pilot that would consider taking the controls in a sodden state, but also any crew that turns a blind eye to past infractions. It's almost never the first time ... :ugh:

Capn Bloggs 27th Mar 2016 13:29


Originally Posted by Huck
That's why they talk to us in screening. It ain't to be nice.

Is a reply mandatory?

AtomKraft 27th Mar 2016 13:40

It's India that does the 'always blow, gotta be zero" routine.

JammedStab 27th Mar 2016 15:23

Hopefully our AA pilot will be leaving AA for a while so he can join a different AA.

Squawk7777 27th Mar 2016 16:18

I am generally speaking not a fan of APA, but their substance-abuse program and Project Wingman are both excellent resources and help to get back on track

gasbag1 27th Mar 2016 16:55

One never knows what is going on in his personal life. Some people make bad decisions and certainly this would seem to be one of them. Fortunately AA and many others have excellent pilot support programs for substance abuse or stress problems . You will get more than one strike in normal circumstances from the programs but not many more.

I have known a number of pilots with "drinking" problems. Some just plain drunks other driven to drink with personal issues. The majority go thru a program and come out the other side clean. But I know of a few that did not and were terminated or forced to retire usually after a second or third occurrence.

aterpster 27th Mar 2016 18:29

gasbag 1:


One never knows what is going on in his personal life. Some people make bad decisions and certainly this would seem to be one of them. Fortunately AA and many others have excellent pilot support programs for substance abuse or stress problems . You will get more than one strike in normal circumstances from the programs but not many more.

I have known a number of pilots with "drinking" problems. Some just plain drunks other driven to drink with personal issues. The majority go thru a program and come out the other side clean. But I know of a few that did not and were terminated or forced to retire usually after a second or third occurrence.
Those options and programs are moot for those pilots who report for flight duty intoxicated.

RIGHTSEATKC135 27th Mar 2016 18:57

Local NBC-10 Philadelphia Coverage
 
Philly coverage from the wee hours today: NBC-10 6AM 27 March 2016

Mimpe 29th Mar 2016 00:08

In Australia the general view is that its a medical issue and with the appropriate treatment , monitoring and medical and psychological clearances for alcohol abuse, the pilot is given a second chance. Third chances are much rarer. Other recreational drugs are treated with much less tolerance. Certain substances are zero tolerance.

West Coast 29th Mar 2016 02:24


Those options and programs are moot for those pilots who report for flight duty intoxicated.
HIMS has helped pilots in this exact scenario.

gasbag1 29th Mar 2016 05:57

Off with his head , is old school now and has been for sometime. It is a medical issue and is treatable. Further hand held breathalyzers are notoriously inaccurate, however before we condemn the pilot we should get ALL the facts. And I would bet he will have to go for treatment either way to keep his career intact.

Another observation, the cops could arrested the pilot in a less visible area to save some dignity for the pilot. I am certain they wouldn't arrest a fellow cop caught driving on the roadside, in uniform, at a stop light, if that cop was intoxicated at work.

core_dump 29th Mar 2016 06:34


however before we condemn the pilot we should get ALL the facts.

And the cops could arrested the pilot in a less visible area to save some dignity for the pilot. I am certain they wouldn't arrest a fellow cop caught driving on the roadside in uniform at a stop light if that cops was intoxicated.
We should get "all the facts" before condemning the pilot, but 2 sentences later it's OK for you to condemn the cops. Is that how it works? For all we know, the cops may have had a reason for not waiting.

16024 29th Mar 2016 12:54

The source at #3, had to "assure herself to remain calm" (would a brandy help?), yet had the presence of mind to get her phone out and get taping, and was "hoping for compensation".
Well that's the important thing.
And when I saw the first post I wondered how long before the Hand wringers would pipe up.
Not long.
Is there any chance the mods could stop wetting themselves about the word "laser", and instead ban any reference to counseling, programs (sic), and mental difficulties whenever someone has had a shandy too many the night before.
While we're on:
"(S)he probably did it before" is against every tenet of justice that there ever was so stop it.

Airbubba 29th Mar 2016 14:49


Those options and programs are moot for those pilots who report for flight duty intoxicated.

HIMS has helped pilots in this exact scenario.
We get the HIMS presentation in yearly training. In recent years we've been told that once you report, you can't get any protection from prosecution and termination through HIMS.

Anecdotally, there have been incidents where the pilot was impaired, saw that they were going to be tested, and 'disappeared' to the loo or elsewhere to make a cell phone call to HIMS before actually blowing over the limit. Since they had voluntarily 'come for help' some of the legal and employment consequences are mitigated pending successful completion of HIMS treatment.

After the Fargo incident Northwest's policy was that you could come down to the altar and say you wanted to enter HIMS anytime before the completion of the Before Start Checklist. Nowadays the goal post, or should I say foul line, is much closer to the security checkpoint in the U.S. from what I see.


Strange, one FO failed alco test and drugs test, after turning up for duty for a European company, and he was allowed to resign without further action. I found that appaling.
I've always claimed that this sort of deal was not uncommon in past cases where there was little public knowledge of the testing or results.

A recent thread here discussed the case of an Alaska Airlines pilot who was allowed to retire after blowing over the limit. Homeland Security recently filed a criminal complaint nearly two years later and he may be facing a plea deal for prison time.

West Coast 29th Mar 2016 15:18


We get the HIMS presentation in yearly training. In recent years we've been told that once you report, you can't get any protection from prosecution and termination through HIMS.
Part of AQP recurrent this year was to watch a well put together video about the company's HIMS program. It had a couple of pilots who used the program, one of whom I know well who failed a post flight breathalyzer. He was immediately fired, sought HIMS assistance and something like 18 months later was back on line.

Airbubba 29th Mar 2016 16:03


It had a couple of pilots who used the program, one of whom I know well who failed a post flight breathalyzer. He was immediately fired, sought HIMS assistance and something like 18 months later was back on line.
Thanks for sharing this.

Did he face any legal action after operating an aircraft over the limit these days? I realize that so much of what happens seems to depend on the jurisdiction and circumstances.

Stuff 29th Mar 2016 16:05


Originally Posted by Hydromet (Post 9324441)
I thought it was possible to blow a quite low figure without having drunk any alcohol, which was the reason for choosing <.02. Is this so?

If you suffer from auto-brewery syndrome it's quite possible to have alcohol in your system without having drunk any, however, I think the sort of quantities produced by this syndrome is far in excess of 0.02.

West Coast 29th Mar 2016 16:47

Bubba

Not sure what legal actions he faced. I've not built up the courage to ask many questions. What I know of the case is what he disclosed on the HIMS video.

Airbubba 29th Mar 2016 17:27


Not sure what legal actions he faced. I've not built up the courage to ask many questions.
I understand and hope your friend has a great career ahead.

West Coast 29th Mar 2016 18:30

He's a good, thoughtful pilot and person when I flew with him years ago when I was a FO. Funny thing is I can't ever recall him drinking a drop of alcohol. Either he started after or preferred to do it behind his hotel door.

langleybaston 29th Mar 2016 18:44

Perhaps the captain was surprised that the FO fouled himself before take-off, rather than during?

core_dump 29th Mar 2016 22:50

According to CBS News, the FO blew a 0.081, twice the legal limit for flying. At first the guy denied drinking at all, but then admitted he had "a drink" the night before. And apparently the business about the seat wasn't just a fabrication:


Officers were called and a short time later, Maguire was observed sitting sideways in the airplane, saying he was having trouble with his seat. The other pilot in the cockpit told authorities to "take him," according to a report.
If having a BAC of "only" 0.08 caused this guy to go sideways in his seat and piss off the captain that badly in the process, I'd say he's not a heavy drinker. That's in lightweight territory. Mug shot in the linked article. He sure doesn't look like he's in great shape, but maybe that's his normal appearance.

Zaphod Beblebrox 30th Mar 2016 22:10

In the US operating a aircraft (part 121), under the influence is a Felony. That's why the handcuffs.

parabellum 31st Mar 2016 05:02

Thanks for the two responses re handcuffs.


I attended the inquest of a friend who died in a road accident, the medical report included the fact that the blood/alcohol level was 0.016. The coroner, himself a doctor I believe, said this level could easily be reached from the alcohol that certain foods generate and went on to add that alcohol was not a factor in the accident.

Airbubba 7th Apr 2016 21:38

New video released showing the pilot getting his epaulettes removed before doing the perp walk in handcuffs through the terminal:

Video Shows Co-Pilot Before Boarding Aircraft While Allegedly Drunk - ABC News

Some stills from the video in this article:

American Airlines pilot John Maguire boarded a plane TWICE while drunk | Daily Mail Online

Also, he goes through security in uniform wearing a ballcap. Is this the new casual work attire at American?


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:30.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.