AA FO Fails Breathalyzer, Arrested
American Airlines Pilot Arrested After Failing Breathalyzer Test at Detroit Airport - ABC News
Does this effectively terminate an airline pilot's career, especially as a 51 year old FO? How common are breathalyzer tests for airline pilots in the US? Other countries? Are the tests truly random or do the companies observe pilot behaviour? |
It depends on the company. They are not so common as in the EU bit depending on the severity one can have termination from flying for good
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He was reported by TSA because of the way he was acting. So this case didn't have anything to do with random tests nor an observation by company.
Here's the part that has me scratching my head: After the FO was handcuffed on the apron in full view of the passengers, the flight was cancelled due to a "problem with the co-pilot chair". Source. I wonder what problem that might have been? Either the "problem with the chair" was the simple fact that it was now unoccupied, or possibly the chair was... soiled. |
Apparently an E 190 F/O.
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That's why they talk to us in screening. It ain't to be nice.
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What is it with the handcuffs? Once it is established the FO was unarmed and had not committed a violent crime surely he can be left uncuffed? If he attempts to run away they can just shoot him.
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.04 you are probably fired and reported to the FAA, .02-.04 removed from service and many operators would put you on a program, some returned to service simply after you blow under .02.
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At a previous airline employer, there was a breath tester in ops. Asian carrier
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Where I work, we are breathalysed on report, 100% of the time.
Got to blow zero.:rolleyes: |
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It's not necessarily the end of the pilots career. HIMS has helped many pilots return to flying. |
Handcuffing is a standard part of every arrest in the US, regardless of the crime charged.
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Where I work, we are breathalysed on report, 100% CP |
Got to blow zero. |
I can't speak for every breathalyser from around the globe, but the ones used in this country are unreliable below 0.02%, hence that is made the threshold.
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I must be missing something, but every time a US pilot is arrested in Europe for being over the limit, there's massive outrage on PPRUNE. No sign of it here?
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Originally Posted by anson harris
I must be missing something, but every time a US pilot is arrested in Europe for being over the limit, there's massive outrage on PPRuNe. No sign of it here?
Srsly, I'm appalled not only with a pilot that would consider taking the controls in a sodden state, but also any crew that turns a blind eye to past infractions. It's almost never the first time ... :ugh: |
Originally Posted by Huck
That's why they talk to us in screening. It ain't to be nice.
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It's India that does the 'always blow, gotta be zero" routine.
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Hopefully our AA pilot will be leaving AA for a while so he can join a different AA.
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I am generally speaking not a fan of APA, but their substance-abuse program and Project Wingman are both excellent resources and help to get back on track
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One never knows what is going on in his personal life. Some people make bad decisions and certainly this would seem to be one of them. Fortunately AA and many others have excellent pilot support programs for substance abuse or stress problems . You will get more than one strike in normal circumstances from the programs but not many more.
I have known a number of pilots with "drinking" problems. Some just plain drunks other driven to drink with personal issues. The majority go thru a program and come out the other side clean. But I know of a few that did not and were terminated or forced to retire usually after a second or third occurrence. |
gasbag 1:
One never knows what is going on in his personal life. Some people make bad decisions and certainly this would seem to be one of them. Fortunately AA and many others have excellent pilot support programs for substance abuse or stress problems . You will get more than one strike in normal circumstances from the programs but not many more. I have known a number of pilots with "drinking" problems. Some just plain drunks other driven to drink with personal issues. The majority go thru a program and come out the other side clean. But I know of a few that did not and were terminated or forced to retire usually after a second or third occurrence. |
Local NBC-10 Philadelphia Coverage
Philly coverage from the wee hours today: NBC-10 6AM 27 March 2016
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In Australia the general view is that its a medical issue and with the appropriate treatment , monitoring and medical and psychological clearances for alcohol abuse, the pilot is given a second chance. Third chances are much rarer. Other recreational drugs are treated with much less tolerance. Certain substances are zero tolerance.
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Those options and programs are moot for those pilots who report for flight duty intoxicated. |
Off with his head , is old school now and has been for sometime. It is a medical issue and is treatable. Further hand held breathalyzers are notoriously inaccurate, however before we condemn the pilot we should get ALL the facts. And I would bet he will have to go for treatment either way to keep his career intact.
Another observation, the cops could arrested the pilot in a less visible area to save some dignity for the pilot. I am certain they wouldn't arrest a fellow cop caught driving on the roadside, in uniform, at a stop light, if that cop was intoxicated at work. |
however before we condemn the pilot we should get ALL the facts. And the cops could arrested the pilot in a less visible area to save some dignity for the pilot. I am certain they wouldn't arrest a fellow cop caught driving on the roadside in uniform at a stop light if that cops was intoxicated. |
The source at #3, had to "assure herself to remain calm" (would a brandy help?), yet had the presence of mind to get her phone out and get taping, and was "hoping for compensation".
Well that's the important thing. And when I saw the first post I wondered how long before the Hand wringers would pipe up. Not long. Is there any chance the mods could stop wetting themselves about the word "laser", and instead ban any reference to counseling, programs (sic), and mental difficulties whenever someone has had a shandy too many the night before. While we're on: "(S)he probably did it before" is against every tenet of justice that there ever was so stop it. |
Those options and programs are moot for those pilots who report for flight duty intoxicated. HIMS has helped pilots in this exact scenario. Anecdotally, there have been incidents where the pilot was impaired, saw that they were going to be tested, and 'disappeared' to the loo or elsewhere to make a cell phone call to HIMS before actually blowing over the limit. Since they had voluntarily 'come for help' some of the legal and employment consequences are mitigated pending successful completion of HIMS treatment. After the Fargo incident Northwest's policy was that you could come down to the altar and say you wanted to enter HIMS anytime before the completion of the Before Start Checklist. Nowadays the goal post, or should I say foul line, is much closer to the security checkpoint in the U.S. from what I see. Strange, one FO failed alco test and drugs test, after turning up for duty for a European company, and he was allowed to resign without further action. I found that appaling. A recent thread here discussed the case of an Alaska Airlines pilot who was allowed to retire after blowing over the limit. Homeland Security recently filed a criminal complaint nearly two years later and he may be facing a plea deal for prison time. |
We get the HIMS presentation in yearly training. In recent years we've been told that once you report, you can't get any protection from prosecution and termination through HIMS. |
It had a couple of pilots who used the program, one of whom I know well who failed a post flight breathalyzer. He was immediately fired, sought HIMS assistance and something like 18 months later was back on line. Did he face any legal action after operating an aircraft over the limit these days? I realize that so much of what happens seems to depend on the jurisdiction and circumstances. |
Originally Posted by Hydromet
(Post 9324441)
I thought it was possible to blow a quite low figure without having drunk any alcohol, which was the reason for choosing <.02. Is this so?
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Bubba
Not sure what legal actions he faced. I've not built up the courage to ask many questions. What I know of the case is what he disclosed on the HIMS video. |
Not sure what legal actions he faced. I've not built up the courage to ask many questions. |
He's a good, thoughtful pilot and person when I flew with him years ago when I was a FO. Funny thing is I can't ever recall him drinking a drop of alcohol. Either he started after or preferred to do it behind his hotel door.
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Perhaps the captain was surprised that the FO fouled himself before take-off, rather than during?
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According to CBS News, the FO blew a 0.081, twice the legal limit for flying. At first the guy denied drinking at all, but then admitted he had "a drink" the night before. And apparently the business about the seat wasn't just a fabrication:
Officers were called and a short time later, Maguire was observed sitting sideways in the airplane, saying he was having trouble with his seat. The other pilot in the cockpit told authorities to "take him," according to a report. |
In the US operating a aircraft (part 121), under the influence is a Felony. That's why the handcuffs.
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Thanks for the two responses re handcuffs.
I attended the inquest of a friend who died in a road accident, the medical report included the fact that the blood/alcohol level was 0.016. The coroner, himself a doctor I believe, said this level could easily be reached from the alcohol that certain foods generate and went on to add that alcohol was not a factor in the accident. |
New video released showing the pilot getting his epaulettes removed before doing the perp walk in handcuffs through the terminal:
Video Shows Co-Pilot Before Boarding Aircraft While Allegedly Drunk - ABC News Some stills from the video in this article: American Airlines pilot John Maguire boarded a plane TWICE while drunk | Daily Mail Online Also, he goes through security in uniform wearing a ballcap. Is this the new casual work attire at American? |
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