Metrojet crash Eygpt
 

Reuters reports from Russia that the russians have confirmed that traces of explosives have been found on the wreckage.

Breaking on Metrojet, head of Russia’s FSB:
BORTNIKOV: IMPROVISED EXPLOSIVE DEVICE EQUIVALENT OF UP TO 1.5 KG OF TNT WENT OFF ONBOARD A321

Putin on Metrojet bombers: "We will seek them wherever they are hiding. We will find then at any spot on the planet and punish them."

Putin on Metrojet bombing: Russia's operation in Syria must be intensified “so that the criminals understand that vengeance is inevitable”.

Taken from the Times Moscow correspondent https://twitter.com/parfitt_tom

So the other day they said no traces of explosives had been found...?

TATP. You need mass spectrometry.

I don't pretend to now how it works, but it's a lot more complicated than training a dog.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry

Operation "Wrath of God"

from my point of view the perfect description of what will happen in the next months...

Putin almost literally repeat Golda Meir's speech. Sapienti Sat.

Re: So the other day they said no traces of explosives had been found...?
 

The two words missing were 'so far'. As I'm sure you realise, not finding evidence in one place does not mean you will not find it in another.

In reality given the state of the engines we saw (ie no evidence of uncontained failure) and the mid-air fireball it could only ever have been a bomb.

There is actually minimal news other than the bomb and equivalent power confirmation so we'll leave this thread running for a while .

Rob

Reuters: Egyptian authorities are holding two Sharm el Sheikh airport employees suspected of aiding those who planted bomb on Russian plane

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/1...13C1PJ20151117

"Sources" again
 

1) Bomb was planted at the tail section (not luggage)
2) Bomb was planted by airport employee (suspected luggage crew) overnight
3) Suspicious hole was found at tail section and analysis shows traces of explosive

PS $50 mln reward for information which will lead to suspect promised
PPS almost all suggestions of "tail" branch of pprune armchair investigation was right

Putin's statement this time is a lot milder than his famous statement in 1999 after Chechen terrorists killed 300 Russians.

"“We will chase terrorists everywhere. If in an airport, then in the airport. So if we find them in the toilet, we’ll rub them out in the outhouse. And that’s it, case closed,”"

Kulverstukas, you forgot...

PPPS It appears all suggestions of "HS jackscrew failure" branch of pprune armchair investigation was wrong

As well as tailstrike version.

Not yet.

PS: Metrojet rep. make statement at LifeNews "we told you".

PPS:

http://c.lifenewscontent.ru/static/p...9a63__660x.jpg

I'am embarrassed it's announced right away after (high) face-to-face meetings

much easier for russian public to accept after what happened in Paris...

Still interested to know who actually planned and executed this.

A bomb that blows 23 minutes into the flight? I wonder what kind of trigger-mechanism they were using.

Still missing - update 10
 

Freezing the start-thread gave me time to catch up on videos and photos. From what i have found till now, major sections still missing (on photos in the public domain):

A. Vertical tail box structure,
B. Rudder,
C. Most of the Aft cargo hold/cabin ... Which includes doors, hatches, floorgrid, panels ... So about 10-15 meters.

Non-technical official and press reports can be quite inaccurate. If i therefore take the word "tail" in its widest possible meaning... And take only the most probable options for a bomb location ... I get 5 different locations/spaces. Some of these have upto 5-6 possible points. For a total of at least 15 probable points. With two unexpected ones.

In a number of these points you could roughly match what you see with a relatively small explosion, but in these instances it is then quite difficult to match it with the other 'evidence' like CVR remarks, AP1 still ON, and aft cabin fire respectively.

Egypt authorities suspend 17 people from airport staff, two of them are suspected of helping person who placed bomb.

A0283
 

seems the area of interest of the bomb going off was a hole found under the keel near the tail

a bomb/IED of 1kg TNT so the RT news says

that maybe explains seeing no cargo hold area or cargo doors or floor back from the wing box

assume bulk loading of the bags and no ULD's used on this airline?

remember this A321 had a planned 12 layover at SSH unattended for the most part

How difficult is a barometric-pressure device as trigger?

PS Egypt seems to be denying any airport staff was arrested....?

How interesting - that is exactly where the Waste Tank is situated in what, I believe, is a relatively inaccessible compartment.

Barometric Trigger
 

Very very easy. Just think of two wires that are pressed together by an expanding balloon. It would take an average school kid about 30 minutes of labour to design accurately.

Quote:
"How difficult is a barometric-pressure device as trigger?"

'Safest' would be a barometric-pressure trigger that starts a timer. Pressure altitude was reached earlier in the flight if device was placed in cargo-hold.

Changes to come??
 

http://www.pprune.org/9177010-post2084.html


A0283 -two unexpected ones ( bomb hiding places)
Control eng - waste tank not easily accessible compartment

if by tail section they mean APU or HS (or one of the two suggests above) it really does question airport security if someone opened a "maintenance panel" to place a bomb.

Of course my original post concerned doors/hatches only if the industry now has o consider securing maintenance panels/hatches what a nightmare.

The modern mobile phone has a barometer, GPS, accelerometers, microphones, timer, radio links, a huge amount of computing power, and a massive support ecosystem of development tools and optional hardware. It's also an everyday item and possession is entirely unremarkable. You can develop the software anywhere in the world and deploy it anywhere else on demand.

You couldn't hope for a better platform to design an efficient and flexible bomb trigger mechanism, all for a couple of hundred dollars and accessible to people with hobbyist-level skills.

That engineering problem has been solved.

I don't know, of course, whether this is what was used; a cheap wristwatch is still a sensible alternative. But this is what I suspect.

Would the proposed placement also explain the immediate cutoff of FDR data?

At the same time, modern phone lacks any suitable interface to actually wire it up to the detonator, and the creative modifications required to do it are not exactly hobbyist-level; more so, the modified phone will no longer be "entirely unremarkable" - unless one manages to conceal the entire explosive device within the phone's casing. I defer to demolition experts on whether it is doable.

I agree that It is a possibility, but from an pure engineering standpoint of view, my humble opinion is that using a smartphone as a detonation trigger seems to be too complicated and potentially unreliable way, while, obviously, there are much simpler ways to achieve the same effect, like the $1 wristwatch that you have mentioned.

wait, will be followed by the ...'balistics expert' team :p

Russia seems to be serious re Bomb
 

For a second straight day French warplanes hit a command post and a recruitment center for jihadists in an Islamic State stronghold, Raqqa, the French Ministry of Defense announced on its website, while Russian news reports said a Russian submarine had fired cruise missiles at Islamic State targets in the same area.
Russia struck Raqqa with advanced Kalibr cruise missiles launched from a submarine in the eastern Mediterranean, the RBC news agency reported, citing sources in the Russian Defense Ministry. The agency said it was the first time Russia had fired cruise missiles from a submarine during a war.

screw jack failure
 

Think the poster meant mechanical failure, would have thought a bomb in apu compartment would have severely disprupted HS and ripped jackscrew to pieces.

How do you protect your 'mole', if the device is set to trigger while the a/c is still over home territory, leaving evidence right at his doorstep? Doesn't make much sense.

EDIT: It's a trivial job, involving a tenner and ebay.

LifeNews published cut from old video with suspected luggage piece.

LifeNews LIFE | NEWS

"In contrary with other luggage, this one seems bears burn marks from inside".

http://c.lifenewscontent.ru/static/p...c__660x370.jpg

UPD: Nevertheless, I still not think it was luggage bomb. My opinion it was planted outside rear pressure bulkhead and it was planted from outside.

Exactly what is the wisdom in posting about possible trigger mechanisms and explosive devices on a public aviation forum???.......?

oyviv
There's nothing to worry about with what has been posted here

This is stuff that an industrious middle school kid with a bit of a mechanical aptitude could easily come up with.

If some people here, not being explosive experts, can imagine such mechanisms, don't you think Daesh have been able too ? They aren't probably (and unfortunately) completely stupid.

So, in your opinion, what destroyed the fuselage pressure vessel while still in the air?

There is no evidence of the RPB being thrust forwards!