Stowaway on BA
 

BBC tells us a body has been found on the roof of an office block in Richmond and a stowaway has been discovered. Does that mean there were two?

It looks like it. The other guy was found on landing. Now in hospital. Incredible. Undercarriage Class. I'm never going to pay Buisiness Class ever again. Do they pass drinks down to you?

Some idiot on the BBC outside source radio program (which is broadcast to the world) was saying 'it's suprising how many stoaways survive'. Something like 25% if you believe them.

No, the correct statement is 'almost always they die'. Just as correct as the previous statement, and sends the right message, don't even think about it.

It's surprising that any survive. You either die from hypothermia, hypoxia, crush injuries from the mechanical components or falling from aircraft during approach. None of them are a nice way to die.

The u/c clamberers should be congratulated for their prescience in guessing alongside which taxiway to lie in wait for a passing BA flight to EGLL.

Even Jo-burg Twr cannot be expected to guess which taxyway a Speedbird 747 is gonna use when cleared to use any one of the very few reasonably useable taxyways from the terminal to the runway. :}

Are there any medics who'd care to comment?

Just interested in the body physiology here.

Just how much air is there at 30000 feet and what happens to the body at those temperatures.

Does it shut down in a similar way to say hibernating bears in the arctic. Have any studies been done on volunteers exposed to freezing temperatures for many hours?

I'm not a medic, but I'll have a go.

About 25% of the oxygen content at sea level, I believe. For all practical purposes, bugger all.

Air temperature is a max of -35C. You freeze.

There are two studies being done right now. One a post-mortem, and another trying to keep the idiot alive.

What I can never understand with these incidents is how there is enough room in the undercarriage well for a body, once the undercarriage is retracted. I would have thought the aircraft designers would not leave any unnecessary space around the retracted gear.

In the Graun:
I'd say a bit more than just security questions.

And how exactly did the survivor manage to exit the baggage hold before the aircraft landed? Shut up Learmount

Well, l suppose its cheaper than trudging all the way up to libya and catching a boat.

Charles Darwin?
 

If ever we were to witness survival of the fittest this might be it.

And it should tell us something about the validity that survival of the fittest would actually "improve" the species.

Poor buggers, hard nosed lot are'nt you!.:=

I'm no medic either, but there have been several programmes on TV recently about people climbing Everest and similar. If any climbers get stuck above about 26,000 feet (the so called death zone) for any length of time then even with full thermal clothing they almost invariably get severe frostbite in fingers, toes and nose.

Unless there is a source of heat in the wheel bay of a 747 (maybe from the floor above?) or this guy was wearing arctic clothing (unlikely, I'd say) then apart from any possible crush injuries and hypoxia effects, my guess is he will loose all his extremities, and I do mean all.

Good job they didn't have an explosive in their bag!
Major security fault really!!

An unpressurised wheel-well isn't surviveable, so I'm guessing the other guy must have been in the hold?

A couple years back, a stowaway reportedly survived in the wheel well of a 767, LAX to Hawaii, with few adverse effects (~5-6 hour flight).
I was skeptical of the report but I don't think there was ever a retraction - something like he snuck into the baggage hold before they closed it up. At the time some health care experts said it was possible for the body to go into a hibernation like state and survive (especially if the wheel well didn't get all that cold - heated from the surrounding airplane), but that in most cases the person wouldn't wake up in time to avoid fall out when they lowered the gear.:sad:

Sky report that the survivor was discovered in a landing gear bay.

Stowaway Plunges To Death From BA Plane

Do the pilots and the airline get fined like truck drivers and their companies for smuggling illegal immigrants?

Sad that one person is dead and another critical Having worked at 'Jan Smuts' many years ago when security was good, it must be scary for airlines that someone can get into the wheel bay of an aircraft before take off.

We mention 30000 feet but that is unrealistically low for a jet for anything other than the shortest route.

More likely between 34K and 40K where with a depressurisation and no oxygen you have a survival rate in seconds not minutes.

Again the temperatures are likely to be -50 C to -60 in the winter and maybe -35 in hot climates
How anyone can survives for hours I don't know

These guys have lived their lives in hot&high conditions so their bodies have a density altitude advantage of up to 10,000 feet over us sea level types.
Maybe (IANADoctor) this gives them the margin to survive.

There seems to be a general assumption that both stowaways were on the same BA flight.
But I see no evidence that the body found on the roof was from the same plane as the survivor. He could have come from almost anywhere.

Unfortunate gentleman probably did not "fall to his death" more than likely was already dead and the body fell out of under bay as it came down?
As said above, there can't be many places to hide in a undercarriage bay?
How many have been crushed by the gear?

Stowaway on BA
 

Ironic thing is poor bloke will probably be sent back in BA World Traveller!

Technical question:

Are the wheel brakes applied before or during gear up, or are the wheels just allowed to spin down?

Being in intimate company with four or six rapidly revolving wheels would no doubt further increase the risk of a fatal outcome.

See why they always say 'Keep your seatbelt fastened at all times' . . .

.

The sky apparently . . .

BA seem to have trouble with Jo'berg. Last incident was nearly killing people when they taxied into a building :}

It seems that ACSA have some questions to answer on both: unserviceable lights and questionable security...?

http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/414827-b747-400-heavy-vibration-after-take-off.html#post5697623

All in all a pretty dumb and stupid way to try and get a better life as you are almost 100% guaranteed to have NO life attempting such a stunt.

You have to question the mentality of people who attempt stuff like this is it pure ignorance ? Maybe they think they can breathe as well at sea level as at 38 K ( People inside the aircraft breathe so we can too) ? Maybe they think the temperature at sea level will stay the same at 38K?

Maybe their decision process is the same as jumping into the back of a lorry to cross a border and they are ignorant of the science

Google is your best friend! You must have a plan and research is part of that plan. Whatever it must be the most frightening experience once the reality kicks in.
They are people like the rest of us just desperate for a better life and hear of that better life very sad

Re Post 32
 

Its not behind the realms of possibilities that if a stowaway can clamber aboard a 744 on the taxiway or whatever he could also have explosives on his person,just my thoughts.

That's the case theoretically but there are recorded examples of people surviving.

One in four plane stowaways can survive, but London case is astonishing | World news | The Guardian

He'll demand an upgrade to Undercarriage Class.

There's more legroom there, y'know.

This is a very serious and ignored point by the media that these stowaways could be an opening for suicide bombers ?

None of this makes any sense from the training I received

further information released today in the media the Jets average level for the flight was FL350. Duration 8 hours !!!!!! average temp was -55C

As I quoted in my earlier post loss of pressurisation at 35,000 feet before loss of consciousness is measured in seconds not minutes never mind 8 hours :ugh:

quoted was the fact that the only survival possible was access to a baggage hold ? Is this possible from the nose gear area ? To access a pressurised area from a non pressurised area ?

One has demonstrated that he didn't need a bomb to kill himself and the other is critical...

But it is a security issue that these two people could get close enough to the plane to do all kind of nasty things to it, including jumping on board.

Mathfox

It demonstrates with the huge security industry which has evolved since 9/11 all the time we waste at airports and the $billions lost in that time in security checks baggage checks, fluid checks, personal X rays etc.

Where there is a will there will be a way for someone intent on downing an aircraft to do so.

I wonder with aviation whether the security or the industry has become more important? I suspect the industry!

Living in London in a multi cultural society it horrifies me to see the millions boarding the London tubes, packed like sardines on a friday night.

Every ethnicity and religious background allowed to drag cases and handluggage onto the trains totally unchecked but with potential equal damage and loss of life to any aircraft.

We have had the Lubitz murder where systems designed to keep PAX without kept the terrorist pilot within.

As stated where there is a will there will always be a way! Concerning aviation I am convinced the security industry has become all important not the security

Years ago on a 707 at Lagos people opened a hold of the aircraft, not in order to stow away, but to steal the luggage and freight; despite four running engines.
On another occasion an aircraft at high speed clobbered a pedestrian on the active runway. The person was taking the shortest way home on a much used route.
It is not surprising to find ignorance of the likely consequences of their actions; you'll find a similar degree of lack of knowledge in wide percentages of the population, irrespective of country.
It's pretty obvious to me that the present people were simply attempting to find a better life for themselves.
As for security then how much do we hobble ourselves, restrict our lives, just in case? You cannot have perfect security.