FD door locked or not locked.

Just saw the statement of LH CEO Spohr again. Some had claimed that CEO Spohr had confirmed today during press conference that FO had locked the FD door. He did not say this.

Spohr said that either the Captain did not try to enter the emergency code or that the FO locked the door for 5 mins inhibition. He said they did not know which of the two was the case. But more probable was the latter one.

I also heard about the news from his home that they may have found something significant. But no further yet.

Language Differences
 

Perusing the last few pages here, I see a few comments quoting various officials which were made in at least 3 different languages, none of which were originally in English, the primary language of this forum.

English is my primary language, but I grew up in a Spanish speaking country and my Spanish is almost as good. Even so, it's very difficult for me to translate from one to the other because different words carry different connotations in different languages and cultures. It's very easy for the wrong message to come across, especially on subjective things, such as whether what someone said was "harsh", "unfeeling", or "callous".

Terrorism has a very specific definition tied in with political aims, and this (and potentially MH370) ain't it - that has nothing to do with stereotypes, just legal & academic definitions. This is a simple case of mass murder - essentially the same as some fed up kid shooting up his school & committing suicide, or some office worker "going postal". Only in this case the weapon was a stick & the victims were all aboard.

I have read the so say transcripts in english, they are not transcripts they are press precis. I can read them in 10 min but the program was 40 mins and his answers were long.

the two poster who said it this morning were both german nationals watching the presser.

also if he set the 5 min lock once would have had to set it again, whether the CEO said that exactly or not.

This is in reply to someone who asked what difference it would make if the cabin crew/ any locked out flight crew had the ability to contact ATC outside the flight deck (at present not possible on older planes like the 320). Well for a start we would be a good deal better informed about what actually happened on the plane from the get go instead of having to piece it together afterwards.

Lots of people in lots of different jobs have to deal with being videoed. Bankers, workers in shopping centres, airport staff, workers at McDonalds, security staff, staff at bars and clubs, law enforcement officers, public transport, cabs, call centre staff.... Why on earth are pilots anything special?

The dual goals of video are to deter crime, and to provide evidence if a crime takes place.

Most people support video when they are being protected, and are less supportive when they are being recorded in order to protect others. Then it becomes an insult and an invasion of privacy......

As with many other things in society, it is a two edged sword. Again, why are pilots a special case?

Most employees have to be a bit careful about what they say and do in company time on company premises. Its called common sense and diplomacy. If you want to slag off about management, its usually best to do it in your own time away from the office. Its not that difficult.

Pilots have historically been a bit of an exception. In a 1:1 conversation well away from management, pilots have argued the right to "privacy" - while on company time, sitting in very expensive company assets, and entrusted with the lives of 100's of the company's customers.

Expect this exception to disappear.

Just like real time tracking of aircraft post MH370, the customers (you know, the people in the back that ultimately pay your wages and without whom you would not have a job) will increasingly demand video security in the flight deck.

Unfortunately, the only thing that will 100% solve the security issue in this particular scenario will never happen due to cost as it would require a redesign of the nose of all aircraft to:

1. Move the forward bulkhead and external door back a metre or so towards the tail to accommodate a bunk in the cockpit
2. Install piddle bags in the cockpit (obv. the cheapest part)
3. Replace the internal door with a refreshment/meal hatch
4. Install a separate flight crew external door forward of the passenger door

I'd rather pay for an air marshal to spend the duration of the flight in the jumpseat...

How can breathing be heard on the CVR ?

Perhaps only if he was wearing a mask. If he was wearing a mask then there is a possibility that the gas mixture was off causing strange behaviour.

There were 8 minutes after the descent. The pilot comes back and finds no answer from inside. Well he isn't going to put an axe through the door immediately. He will probably ring a few times and then knock on the door. That's 2 minutes gone.

He is in an unknown and weird situation, so decides to override the door, tries to remember the code and puts it in ... maybe he pressed a wrong digit. Then he has to wait 5 minutes to try it again ??? Is that how the mechanism works. There is not enough time.

Of course we could all jump into the hysteria and call it terrorism, and force all pilots to take a double-dose of prozac before lift off.

Re: Downward leg abnormalities
 

Neither dispelled nor confirmed.

At the press conference, a reporter for German Channel One news was referring to "reports" the pilot in question had shown "conspicous behaviour" on the downward leg. LH CEO Spohr said he wasn't aware of those and would follow up.

Other media refer to these "reports" as coming from passengers.

john,
If you know the correct numbers, you can contact ATC from anywhere.

Or... just send an FA into the flight deck while the PNF is answering the call of nature, as is already procedure for many airlines :ugh:

Glad to see that the authorities have ruled out conclusively all the possible medical scenarios before jumping on the suicide/pilot's fault bandwagon.:hmm:

The guy could have had a panic attack ( might never have ever been left alone in a plane with 500 hours TT) brain aneurysm, subtle partial incapacitation etc etc

The suicide theory is definitely an option but how about we look at a few other very possible options before we go down that path.

There seems to be a bit of an agenda being run in numerous media sources about needing real time CVR/Black Box data, which is going to solve nothing so I am not sure why it is being brought up.

Yes... and nobody mentioned EMP hit by North Koreans, alien abduction and static overload from too much balloon rubbing on their heads.
That electronic glitch must have knocked out the f/o, too. And the door mechanism.. or the five remaining crew members forgot the emergency code.

But to be fair, there may be all sorts of explanation... as there always is.
As we might never know for sure, we might stick best with good old Ockham:

"The simplest explanation is usually the correct one".

And by simplest I'd use the one with most known facts as of today.

I've slipped behind with reading in, so forgive if this has been spotted. I came from the Mail On Line link above.

Why does this ring such a loud bell? My bold.

Agree, feed the picture of the flight deck to cabin crew.


Mickjoebill

Chuboy
 

Not going to make an ounce of difference, I'm afraid.

My airline already does that, and given the average age, english language ability and education level, she (or sometimes he) will do anything I tell her to do, even as far as locking the door for me.

If I was determined to enact an act of disaster, a 45kg 19 year old girl would not stop me from me doing what I want to do.

Send in 2? Now it's a lot more difficult.

Family and friends
 

I think his family will definitely help with the investigation, and also his closest friends, if he had any. Not to mention the valuable input from his GP and psychologist.
He must have shown previous signs of mental weakness.
It is true that mental health conditions can affect anybody but this guy had a confirmed history of depression, stress, exhaustion, he probably did not plan his mission but he was vulnerable and he needed help. I have the image of a young fragile person, possibly fatigued and very stressed, exhausted, unhappy, who would see all those around him as enemies, nobody listening to him, nobody aware of his deep mental suffering, nobody helping or supporting him, a human being simply ready to explode at any time: the trigger could have been anything, including the Captain's landing briefing instructions, e.g. the way he spoke to him, anything really could have made this young FO very upset, and even angrier with his life, maybe he suddenly got so upset with the Captain to the point that he decided to give him a lesson and "prove to him and to the world who was really in charge of the plane", his action would have finally ended his state of mental pain and suffering. His revenge vs all suffering and pain. Maybe the deliberate act of crashing had not been planned, it could have just been the result of a malfunctioning and depressed brain, a sudden reaction to the extreme emotional pressure of the moment or of the day.
There are cases of mothers killing their small children when they decide to commit suicide and take their own lives, this is another example of how unpredictable and dangerous mentally ill brains can be for innocent people around them. It takes only a moment of uncontrollable anger or extreme emotional pressure to commit a mass suicide. The brain is incredibly complex and fragile.
Let's try and mitigate risk factors of hectic modern life like stress, fatigue, over-work, lack of rest, career pressure, extreme competition, unrealistic targets, micro managing people etc. as a good start; mental health has never been such a huge issue as nowadays in our very advanced western societies. Our brains are not meant to be constantly working under the extreme pressures of modern life, our brains do not work as computers.
Maybe we should all start to slow down a bit and think of real priorities in life, this would really be a good start and we would also be a bit happier, we could finally enjoy our jobs; we are just human beings in the end and we must take care of our feelings, emotions and essentially we must protect our fragile brains from mental illness.
A malfunctioning brain killed so many innocent people, again.
Societies and governments should therefore do all possible to mitigate the risk of creating more "ill brains" which simply means creating more mental health cases.:ok:

Geez, where have you been mate? One spring (training time) I flew for three months without having an f/o with more than 300 hr total time. Do you really think I never visited the potty in all that time? Yes, this was big jets. That is the nature of modern aviation.




£68k for an f/o?? You are having a laugh, surely. For all we know he was paying the company to fly, like most of the f/os in certain lo-cos do. Oh, and paying off a £100k training mortgage at the same time.

I still think there is a 5% chance the "incapacitated" theory has merit.

What if the captain forgot the code to the door? Heck I draw a blank on my pin-code sometimes which hasn't changed in 10 yrs.

Does it happen that Crew forget the code and need the other crew member to help them out i.e. open the door to let them in?

If the F/O felt he was losing consciousness and his last action was initiating descent because he suspected hypoxia...... but his unconsciousness was caused by a medical event.... and the captain didn't have the code to the door....

I don't believeCabin Crew knows the code. That would be a very easy hijack target.