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There has been a contradiction on the mental make up of the FO by the prosecutor who has also dispelled suicide. A lot of posts have referred to the young pilot poor employment and conditions driving him to take his life and everyone else. The fact that the prosecutor has dispelled suicide isn't as stupid as it sounds The prosecutor discussed that when they got to the landing briefing the FO became very kurt in his responses. There are certain people who have anger management problems and cannot take criticism. On the surface they appear friendly until something triggers that anger and then they see Red, the anger becomes uncontrollable and they have to vent that anger on something or somebody. Blind rage! and i stress the word BLIND It is more likely seeing the prosecutors comments re suicide that the Captain triggered something in the FOs mind where he lost the plot. He probably didn't even consider his own imminent death or the PAX but satisfying his rage against the Captain by crashing the aircraft. Don't presume its some poor lad with lifes woes on his shoulders trying to kill himself this is something else and probably goes way back into his childhood |
I can remember reading a book written by psychos about stress in flying when I was heavily involved in training.
It was a very interesting read and I can still remember smiling hugely at the comment that: "7% of pilots holding a CPL or higher are, technically speaking, clinically mad". Despite the odd (no pun intended) eccentric student, I never really felt that this was a valid figure but I am beginning to wonder. |
G-ARVH, you are correct in saying that change is needed in this industry. That change will not happen easily or quickly. Airlines sell a demand driven commodity, and as such are subject to whims of the consumer. The consumers have become accustomed to cheap airfares. Since keeping aircraft in the air is expensive business, airlines have no choice but to save where they can. Pilot remuneration has always, and will always be an easy target for cost cutting. They will therefore continue to drive for lower wages and erosion of perks, since that ultimately allows them to offer cheaper fares. I have seen a steady erosion of pay and perks in my 25 years of flying, and there seems to be no end in sight. Any airline who suddenly start employing highly experienced pilots, will inevitably see a rise in expenditure. Ticket prices would have to be increased, and pax are sure to abandon the airline. It truly is a vicious circle. One could almost say that the passengers are ultimately their own worst enemy………. |
Could the sounds of hammering at the door have been items of cabin luggage percuting the door?
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Depression can cause people to kill themselves; by itself it does not cause people to commit mass murder. That's a whole different mental illness, and one that good psychological testing arguably should have picked up during the hiring process.
Having said that, the argument that a second person in the cockpit is not really a safeguard against this kind of behavior- because a pilot bent on such mass murder would simply start with the person next to him - is flawed. It's one thing to change a couple of switches to cause a plane full of people to crash; it's another thing to batter a co-worker to death in a confined space. The mindset that can do the first is not necessarily one that will do the second. |
Germanwings a low cost carrier?
I'm not sure it is, in the Ryanair or EasyJet sense. Too many costs inherited from the DLH business model.
Up to now (fingers crossed) the European true Low Cost Carriers have an excellent safety record. |
Fa2fi
I beg to differ with your opinion that all is hunky dory in the balance between profitability and safety.
The strikes and threats of strikes suggest the boundary has been reached or even crossed. My statement is a general one about the complexity of the interactions, there is no fact which links the disaster to industrial unrest, but several people have intimated this could play a role. |
Why was the 'self improver' route curtailed? Was there any evidence that airline pilots who had come up that way were not up to snuff?
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It would be nice if this accident highlighted to the various aviation authorities the utter futility of making pilots go through airport security and have bottles of water removed etc. I am not saying all airport security for pilots should be removed but to impose the same restrictions on pilots as for passengers is clearly inappropriate. The present security restrictions can have an adverse effect on safety when it results in flight crew being heckled for queue jumping and results in them arriving at the aircraft late, frustrated and in a harassed frame of mind.
A suicidal pilot does not need weapons and could ensure total destruction of the aircraft whether he is alone or whether there are 2,3 or 4 people in the flight deck. I am not going into detail. As Nigel on Draft mentioned earlier a suicidal cabin crew member left in the flight deck with an unsuspecting Captain or First Officer can equally take over. No solution is foolproof. |
BBC News 24 - Expert - Cpt Mike Vivian ex Head of Ops CAA
At frigging last an expert rather than a so called expert. Interview for 5 mins or so. Knowledgeable, respectful, articulate, immediate understandable answer, not too much Pilot jargon. Put it over very well even with the Easyjet announcement mid interview. At last, thank you Mike :D |
on the italian press there is a report from the german faz.net newspaper that the copilot had suffered several years ago a "burn out" syndrome and decided to stop to fly for a while.....so...if this is true things start to be more clear regarding the mental situation of this man...:suspect:
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I think a word of appreciation to the manufacturers of the CVR is in order. About the only thing that wasn't pulverised - fit for purpose. If we had been reliant on the FDR the mystery might have taken a lot longer to unravel - if at all.
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What happened in the last few pages, now it is a poor FO who was bullied by his captain and we should find blame elsewhere?
Get real guys, this character willfully locked the captain out and decided to play kamikaze. If he wasn't some young kid whose license was barely dry buying a job with a loco as so many others do here we wouldn't be having this conversation and the 144 passengers would be sitting home with loved ones. There is only one person to blame here, the FO. |
@Twiglet1 - agreed-here's a link to the interview if anyone wants to listen. BBC Radio 5 live - In Short, Former Head of CAA Flight Ops: Germanwings voice recorder reports 'don't add up'
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In historical cases of pilot suicide/deliberate action, has there been a recurring motive?
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2 People in the Cockpit Is Some Help
bratschewurst is absolutely right that the ability/insanity that would allow a person to fly a plane full of people into the ground is not necessarily the same one that will allow someone to beat a coworker to death with the limited weapons in the cockpit.
I'm not a psychiatrist treating the murderously insane, but it seems to this layperson that having to beat a flight attendant to death or unconsciousness would probably stop most of the limited group of pilots insane enough to want to kill a planeload of people. And perhaps those with that special kind of crazy that would allow beating someone to death up close and personal could be more easily screened out than those merely insane enough to want to kill many strangers when killing themselves. |
Thomas Cook Changing Procedure
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All this speculation on door security or automation is moot. IF you cannot trust a pilot to always act with the safety of his/her aircraft as first priority and those on the ground second... then what?
My career was ATC. You pilots know your side, but a determined individual sitting up front can kill with certainty on takeoff or short final, ( esp in wx or IMC ) a lot more than cruise flight regardless of another pilot in cockpit or not. And too.. an Airbus would not react well to left seat fighting the right seat for control, no? No one can automate out intent. Once we go down the rabbit hole of not trusting one pilot actions... commercial aviation is doomed. Unacceptable risk. |
I read something a while back about people with 'suicidal tendencies'. At least according to the article, it is quite common that when someone becomes suicidal, they do not consider the consequences of their action on other people. It's not that they don't care that other people may die, the thought that they could be killing other people never even occurs to them. Hence the person who turns their car into oncoming traffic never even thinks about the possibility that people in the car they collide with may be seriously hurt or killed.
Rather scary if true, but it would help explain things. |
There has been criticism from posters of the prosecutor releasing info too early. French Public Law is very different to the common law practiced in many Western countries. For example I believe the prosecutor is usually a judge not just an attorney.
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