@ DirtyProp - agreed, but costs are being driven down by the lowest common denominator LCCs , the question is are the regulators giving too much free reign which is putting too much financial strain on all carriers?

Epilepsy
 

Absolutely agree with Andyjoy- i am worried about damning this man so quickly. Epilepsy might mimic this scenario. Simple partial seizures or dissociative states associated with psychiatric illness could potentially lead to this problem

Dissociative Seizures: a Challenge for Neurologists and Psychotherapists

Cost reduction in low cost airlines comes at the expense of increased stress on pilots. A previous post mentions the Colgan crash - here is a section about that crash that I wrote in a case study about the Flybe heavy landing in Belfast in February 2014 by the one-armed pilot:

"The US National Transportation Safety Board’s investigation into the crash of a Colgan Air Dash 8 just outside of the airport at Buffalo, New York on Feb 12, 2009 revealed alarming facts about the lifestyles of pilots on low cost airlines in the United States. Both of the pilots routinely slept overnight on couches in the airline’s Newark Airport Crew Lounge. Neither pilot actually lived in New York – one lived in Seattle, the other in Florida, and both commuted to their Newark base by free air travel."

"Their long commutes (5 hours for the First Officer and 3 hours for the Captain) plus their uncomfortable sleeping arrangements were considered to have contributed to fatigue as an element of the crash. Internet pilot discussion groups attributed their bizarre no-frills lifestyles to their low pay, but noted that this was a common practice when such pilots could not afford hotels, and could not afford the housing costs of their home low-cost airline base. This lifestyle image was in stark contrast to the popular image of the glamorous lifestyles of flag and legacy pilots, accommodated in first-class hotels at layover destinations."

These facts are not directly related to the specific stresses on this Germanwings FO, but are sadly part of the general new psychological environment for low-cost airline pilots all over the world.

AirRabbit,


I think that is what my post was alluding to.

oldoberon

not at all but it seems he has been hung drawn and quartered just because the BEA says thats what happened ....and we all know how the concorde investigation went
but those in a state of confusion though strokes/fits etc can do things that they think are normal sorry but even someone that is trying to kill themselfs do not stay in a stable state of breathing as like every person the body goes in to flight or fight mode and readies itself its a human reaction that nobody can control

your iphone fingerprint system was very quickly cracked as were other features of that ios release.

any way if a hijacker held a gun to your head and put your finger over the scanner bingo he is in, without the PIC authorising the entry.

It would have been very strange if ATC hadn't been recording Selected Altitude, given that there would have been several Mode S radars within range, interrogating the flight for that and other parameters (ironically, to detect a level bust).

See here: We have analysed the raw data from the transponder of #4U9525 and found some more dat

for the couple of seconds during which SEL ALT was changed from 38,000ft to 100ft.

hmm one has to be one big sick MF with ice for a heart to point a gun to the head of 149 people including children and wait calmly for the trigger to be pulled in about 8 minutes or so, without a sound, ignoring everyone.

IMV this has nothing to do with depression.

Regarding the cockpit door: replace the expensive door lock systems by an air marshal, close enough to the cockpit.

Not Terrorism Not SUICIDE
 

There has been a contradiction on the mental make up of the FO by the prosecutor who has also dispelled suicide.
A lot of posts have referred to the young pilot poor employment and conditions driving him to take his life and everyone else.

The fact that the prosecutor has dispelled suicide isn't as stupid as it sounds
The prosecutor discussed that when they got to the landing briefing the FO became very kurt in his responses.

There are certain people who have anger management problems and cannot take criticism. On the surface they appear friendly until something triggers that anger and then they see Red, the anger becomes uncontrollable and they have to vent that anger on something or somebody.
Blind rage! and i stress the word BLIND

It is more likely seeing the prosecutors comments re suicide that the Captain triggered something in the FOs mind where he lost the plot.
He probably didn't even consider his own imminent death or the PAX but satisfying his rage against the Captain by crashing the aircraft.

Don't presume its some poor lad with lifes woes on his shoulders trying to kill himself this is something else and probably goes way back into his childhood

A thought;

Simply move the cockpit door rearwards so that the forward toilet becomes part of the flight deck, (sorry passengers - you will have to use the rear toilets). That way, no pilot can be locked out of the flight deck while going to the loo.

The only time that either pilot would then need to go through the locked door would be to board or de-plane at each end of their flying duty.

The controls and operation of the locked cockpit door by the pilots would be just the same as it is now, but the door would be moved about a meter back.

And then what if the Air Marshal then has nefarious intentions? We just keep going round and round in circles. At the end of the day we just have to accept that in life we live with some very sick people who have the potential to cause us harm. We can never get rid of this risk completely just as we can't get rid of the element of risk in all parts of life. What if a tree fell down and killed someone, do we then chop down all trees so they can't harm anyone any more?

Is it horrific and tragic what has happened but it is exactly the same as what happened in Mumbai or in Sandy Hook or in Columbine High School. If someone wants to cause other people harm they will do, regardless of what we do.

Cost conscious airlines versus diligent training and working conditions
 

In my mind it is unavoidable that airlines will work constantly towards lowest possible cost. They can hardly be blamed for that, as after the de-regulation of air travel and the abolition of state supported airlines, the role of the CEO is to ensure maximum long term return on investment for his shareholders. All other aims to him are secondary, it is simply economics.

This automatically implies government or supra-governmental organizations will need to ensure this normal drive does not affect safety. Safety can never be self regulatory and requires stiff regulation. Not easy.

Nothing that I've read so far mentions the captain saying anything while trying to get back onto the flight deck. Surely, before setting to with whatever he was using to try to open the door, he would have called to the FO, and the FO would presumably have replied.

Hi Keef,

From recollection, the prosecutor mentioned that the captain at first knocked gently and later was more forceful on attempting to re-enter, I am assuming this will have included verbal attempts.

The prosecutor also said that the FO did not utter a single word after the Captain left the flight deck. This must therefore mean he did not pick up the intercom nor replied to the captain through the door.

Sorry it is in French, Norwegian doing an "Easy" .

http://www.lalibre.be/actu/internati...707e3e941f7af8

@Keef apparently there was never an answer to the Cpts queries, so the Marseille prosecutor said.

vanHork
 

Airline safety is better than it has been for a LONG time. Please provide evidence that the current approach to business is not as safe as the state run airlines once were.

I can't think of anywhere where safety is self regulating. There are regulators to oversee safety.

And with respect all of the previous examples of pilot suicide have been national carriers/full service/state airlines. Let's stop the LCC bashing.

"The Thought Process behind suicide"
 

There is no one (logical or illogical) thought process at work in cases of suicide in general. Only a complex, individual-specific multitude of factors - including - but not limited to - external stressors (e.g. Financial or relationship problems); poor coping strategies, developmental factors, addiction, mental health issues / diagnoses). The thought process in psychosis would not be described as logical, and suicide may occur secondary to a delusional process, command hallucinations, PTSD or other symptoms. Incidentally, this can actually be accurately described as a suicide/homicide. There will never just be one 'reason' to explain a complex interplay of biological, social, psychological, environmental stressors and factors. From a mental health professional - not a pilot.

This is story is really both tragic and hard to believe.

That being said I think we have to recognize that it would be tremendously complex - if not impossible - to setup a system that would prevent a repeat with a high degree of confidence. Simply put if a pilot wants to crash the plane he can do it. Yes some protections could be put in place but they would create new issues by themselves - on a pure risk / reward / cost analysis I guess the best action is to do nothing I leve with the (thankfully) very very low risk of another such atrocity.

Well blame the authorities for this situation, it was not that long ago when they more or less scrapped the self improver route, (PPL, Instructor, CPL, Turboprop, 1500 hours later ATPL and maybe the right seat of a jet) in the UK in favour of young button pushing wannabes coming out with a licence after 200 hours !!!!!