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AirAsia over run.
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Not the first time. They have been off the runway several times, and they also landed short one time.
http://http://www.independent.co.uk/...t-9947868.html How this can happen with their superior crew? |
7500ft runway - same as Liverpool and Newcastle and longer than Luton. When has anything gone off the end at one of those? Says it all about that part of the world. :uhoh:
Probably using the famous Indonesian Flap 5 (or 1 on the 320) and VREF 220kt procedure. |
Probably using the famous Indonesian Flap 5 (or 1 on the 320) and VREF 220kt procedure. |
7500ft runway - same as Liverpool and Newcastle and longer than Luton. When has anything gone off the end at one of those? Says it all about that part of the world. Probably using the famous Indonesian Flap 5 (or 1 on the 320) and VREF 220kt procedure. |
... but how often do they get monsoonal rain at Liverpool |
Haven't spent much time in Liverpool, have you? |
While it is easy to be cynical, here is what journalist said after leaving the aircraft via the emergency slide, this must be a frightening experience for passengers.
According to Jet Damazo Santos, a journalist from Rappler Indonesia, passengers had to leave the aircraft using its emergency slide. "Engine was shut immediately, we were told to leave bags, deplane asap. Firetruck was waiting. Seems handled well," she posted on her Twitter account. "Nobody seems to be hurt. Weather was bad because of #senangph. Plane came to a very abrupt stop." |
Unstabilized!
RWY 23 - ILS & LOC on TEST so non-Prec.!
So most likely too high & touch down too late. How many times have we had that in real life or the sim & done a GA. So who was PF? Anyone call "Unstabilized or GA", maybe the PF was PIC & he just pushed it? FDR and CVR will tell all. They were so lucky for the soaked ground stopping them before a structural breach or fire. No doubt $10 Million in damages. Can you imagine how much distrust/apprehension exists in the Cabin towards the Pilots now? |
Actually listed as 7175' or 2187m which is still plenty. Problem lies with the approach which is a LOC for RWY23 possibly followed by a circle to land RWY05.
ATC will put you into the hold at the initial fix (LASOR) and will clear you for approach from 1000' higher than normal. You are perfectly set up to be high and unstabilised for 23, even circling for 05 would require a higher than normal descent profile, and you would have to position yourself manually rather than have the A/P fly an ILS approach. Auto Brake MED may be required depending on wind and landing weight. ATC seem to favour a circle to land 05 as there are no taxi ways, you simply turn off near the end straight into the apron. |
the problem of this culture (asian especially), is that Going around is interpreted like a fail for them...
Plus it's a low cost, GA = high cost. :D |
Journalism at its finest "plane came to a very abrupt stop". Not abrupt enough apparently ;-)
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Tough audience, the quote was from the journalist's twitter account not a piece she wrote for paper. I suspect the stop at the end was felt abrupt as the aircraft was now in the rough.
http://cdn3.coconutsmedia.com/styles...sia_kalibo.jpg |
You mean it came to an abrupt stop, albeit in the wrong place.
Operating in monsoon conditions, the crew really need to be on the ball. Stabilized approach, and know what you're doing with the reverse (max, not idle) as the reverse is the only pilot input that is going to slow you down, any meaningful amount, initially. Any doubt whatsoever, carry out a missed approach of course. |
Was it a cultural issue when Qantas QF1 didn't go around at Bangkok in 1999 and ended up at the perimeter road?
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@robshan
well said, spot on...
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Another AirAsia plane in news: AirbusA320, with 159 on board, overshoots Kalibo runway
MANILA - Another AirAsia plane figured in the news Tuesday afternoon, this time in the Philippines. An AirAsia Zest aircraft with 159 people onboard overshot the runway at Kalibo International Airport in Aklan late Tuesday afternoon, further spooking holiday travelers. The incident happened just as international media quoted Indonesian authorities confirming that the debris and bodies found in Java Sea belonged to Air Asia's Flight 8501 that disappeared enroute to Singapore Sunday morning. The A320 aircraft used by Flight Edz272 overshot Kalibo Runway 23 while landing from Manila at 5:43 PM. It was piloted by Capt. Achilles Narajos. On board were 153 passengers and six crew members. Consequently, landing and takeoff at Kalibo airport was suspended effective 5:43PM. An initial report from accident investigators of the Civil Aviation Authority of the Philippines (CAAP) said passengers had to use the plane's emergency inflatable chute to disembark, with assistance from the plane crew. All passengers are at the airport terminal being attended by airport personnel. Reports said that three tires of the crippled A320 are embedded in mud at the end of Runway 23. All incoming flights had been cancelled tonight on account of heavy rains. Even if the VOR RWY23 is commenced from the correct altitude of 3900' the descent point is only 11.8nm from the threshold. If cleared for the approach before expecting it or kept high on the DME arc you would struggle to slow down, configure and fly the correct profile. |
This reminds me of other AirAsia off the runway incidents.
They have been off the runway in Kuching, Brunei and Kota Kinabalu, and landed short in Miri once. In Kota Kinabalu they landed after the previous MH flight went around. It would be interesting to know the fuel policy in this airline. Minimum fuel can put pressure on pilots to land in less than ideal conditions. |
Eclan
Eclan,
You can clearly see the fire services are there to assist in the evacuation. Highly unlikely they'd be that quick to respond in an unexpected overrun such as off an unstable approach unless they took all night to evacuate. Maybe best, yet again, to keep your trap shut until you know more facts hmmm..? 2) You don't know how long the evacuation took. Was it an emergency evacuation or was it an orderly evacuation using the slides. Typically I see crews in the simulator taking at least a minute on the A320 to deal with immediate problems before even deciding and calling for the On Ground Emer Evacuation Checklist. 3) I am not sure an accident investigator would reach any solid conclusion about the nature of the emergency from this photograph. 4) I am not aware of planned emergencies that include a definite runway over run. Nor would you normally expect fire crews to be in the stopway/clearway ready and waiting if that is what you are suggesting. It is more usual to pick a runway long enough to stop on taking into account braking action, and plan to do that. 5) Maybe best, yet again, to keep your trap shut until you know more facts |
Originally Posted by Doors to Automatic
(Post 8802532)
7500ft runway - same as Liverpool and Newcastle and longer than Luton. When has anything gone off the end at one of those? Says it all about that part of the world. :uhoh:
Probably using the famous Indonesian Flap 5 (or 1 on the 320) and VREF 220kt procedure. |
Not aware of any Thomson overruns at any of those airports?
To the poster who mentioned that these airports don't experience monsoons - true but they do experience crosswinds, snow, thunderstorms and fog and associated diversions when crews consider said conditions out of limits. |
Quote: Probably using the famous Indonesian Flap 5 (or 1 on the 320) and VREF 220kt procedure. That would be suicidal.... |
DTA, Newcastle 2010 or '11 a Thomson 738 slid off the end of 07.
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DTA, have you ever operated in the monsoon?
Of course it should not make any difference, I agree. |
No can't say I have as I am not a pilot but I know the subject well enough to understand that it shouldn't make any difference to safety because if it is so bad to compromise safety then you don't go in!
LSM - not technically an overrun as it stayed on the paved surface but I confess to forgetting about that one! |
1500 metres in monsoon equals 500 metres in fog. Same solution, go around and initiate plan 'b'.
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No can't say I have as I am not a pilot but I know the subject well enough to understand that it shouldn't make any difference to safety because if it is so bad to compromise safety then you don't go in! It's very easy to sit in armchairs and pontificate but pilots have to make decisions in real time. The point I was making about the monsoon is that you have to experience it to understand how rapidly things can change. Even the heaviest rain at LPL is nothing like landing in the monsoon I can assure you. The question is how do you determine "if it is so bad to compromise safety" not to go in? |
Indonesia and surrounding area does not have a monopoly on monsoons - but it seems to on duff airlines and runway excursions. That is the crux of my point :ok:
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doors to automatic:
Nearly a third of the world's population lives in China and SE Asia. There are about 90 international airports in SE Asia and many more regional airports. Before you make those kinds of observations take some time to work out the frequency rate. Your observation might be valid, but what things "seem" like to you and what the reality is could be vastly different. |
I wasn't referring to China or most of SE Asia. I was referring to Indonesia which has a staggeringly high overrun rate.
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You can clearly see the fire services are there to assist in the evacuation. Highly unlikely they'd be that quick to respond in an unexpected overrun such as off an unstable approach unless they took all night to evacuate. As you can see from this image, the RFF are in the background assisting in what was a runway excursion, this aircraft veered off the centreline. The decision to conduct an emergency evacuation when there is no imminent danger to the passengers and crew will take several minutes to assess, and the arrival of the RFF can assist in this process. |
Welll....talkin'bout Phil airlines/airliners, Kalibo airport, Philippines, Airbus 320, overruns and etc, why dont we take a look from the spectator inner-point of view...Part 1:
Part 2...Hummmm, those RFFS seems to be a lil'doubtful about what must be do, where to start...and so on :hmm: Happy new year...tanx God no one got hurt in these 2 episodes(video day and today ;)) |
In the first video, from seeing the first set of Piano Keys go past - there is approximately 10 seconds before touchdown. Ooops.
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Yeap PaxBoy...goin to Google earth/maps, its pretty clear this AirPhilExpress some time ago (but same rwy as Asia/Zest today), touched half down ...uuppsss----gotta luv that guy comment and the kiddy asking and letting daddys explain...:8
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METAR RPVM 301100Z 00000KT 9999 SCT020 OVC090 26/24 Q1008 RMK A2977 METAR RPVM 301000Z 21004KT 9999 SCT020 BKN090 27/24 Q1007 RMK A2974 |
Moderate turbulence=people screaming and praying to their gods. Watching the runway flying past underneath you as your idiot captain sails along at mach .8 and and runs you off into the dirt, people act as if nothing is wrong. Amusing if you weren't there. I would have been terrified watching all that runway sail by without hearing the power come on.
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Post #34 - the passenger in the video stated it was a nice landing.... :ugh:
people act as if nothing is wrong |
@mikedreamer787 Is your sarcasm radar turned off?!
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It is quite interesting to hear the cabincrew prepare for landing call so late in the approach. I can not imagine that the SOP's are written in such a matter that this call shall be given at 100-200ft during the approach
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The announcement about seats that comes along with the runway threshold certainly delivers. :uhoh:
I am wondering if it's flap2 or flap3 conf? |
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