6feet under,

No but I know a Scottish bloke (Rraamjet) that has, if that's your subtle question!

Ex QFlt.

Cheers,

No, just thinking you spent time on the L10 in the FH. He is ex Qflt as well.

The simple solution is to put them all on the freighter fleet for 12 months on probation and review the files. The cost of converting the bus boys is minimal in the scheme of things.

There are some that may not get through the review but 12 months in pergatory deserves probation and a secnd chance.

Some of the guys on basings who refused upgrades because they didn't want to come back to HK will have to re-think their positions or opt out permanently.

FWIW

VR-

Now that's the first bit of original thinking I've heard on the 49'ers in a long while. If you have the ear of anyone up there, why don't you pitch the idea at them?

Or better yet, if your personal/family needs dictate, take the employment if offered and disregard the selfish, inane ramblings of the AoA and the rabble-rousers on this forum....:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Not that my opinion matters, but I agree with Ironbutt57.

Looks to me like another pathetic desperate attempt by the HKAOA to try to keep their case alive.

From what I can see the whole thing is orchestrated by a bunch of whining ex-RAF, antipodean and Canadians who have pretty much nothing to loose, and who have too much time on their hands sitting on their collective ****s in the soul destroying yet pilot friendly confines of Disco Bay.

Kubota

The idea has been mentioned. It is now a case of the capuccino sippers getting the pinkies out of their collective port nostrils and taking it upstairs.

If the festering sores are to be healed in my lifetime it will have to be done by compromise. It's that simple.

Sure the company can continue to sit pat and do nothing. The airline will continue to operate and the AOA may gradually wither; BUT as long as there remains a body of pilots who remember what happened last year, the company, the staff AND the shareholders will continue to pay an unholy price.

Ironbutt,

I agree with you 100%.

Are you ex-Frank by any chance?

We will never win.

Never crossed one, never will....but if you expect others to have solidarity and support your cause, then you'd better do it yourself as well.....AoA is asking for outsider support, offering little in return...very silly situation...personally I'd get out of flying before I'd seek and accept employment at CX during the ban...or any other time for that matter, but the recruitment ban is very ill-concieved/executed.

I guess the reason it hasn't gone upstairs is lack of courage.

Many in magament seem timid to say the least. DMT is not going to bite your nose off. He is looking for a solution as much as we all are.

lets look at this situation from the so called "scabs" point of view....chances are the T&C's on offer now are far better than those at the regime they are currently working under, so should they honestly be expected to say "oh no, i'm not going there, give the jobs back to those poor guys and i'll stay where i am in a position with less pay, interest and prospects". please grow up and realise this is a competitive job market like many other industries. yes, aviation is a profession, and i am the first to agree it is going downhill rapidly as a career, but i am amazed at those that try to compare it to medicine, the law and such like. ok, the entry criteria are as high, or higher, but doctors and lawyers have a virtual monopoly in their markets. i'm afraid that the airline business is just not like that, there is a lot of competition out there, not just between airlines, but also between those wishing to participate on the flightdeck. for every airline pilot there is more than one pilot with appropriate qualifications ready to step into his place. thats the way it is, airline management will do whatever it thinks it can get away with. i appreciate that CX has bypassed the disciplinary procedure etc etc and that is out of order, but to mark the cards of others who are just trying the best they can to make the most of their own lot is arrogant and selfish. the "i'm alright jack" mentality works both ways you know.

basil fawlty

I agree with the sentiments of your post. I think there's a correlation of "lower" working conditions and the growth of the global alliances.

Our profession is merely taking its turn in the sausage machine, at this time.

If this corporate model continues and leaps over to the medical profession they'll at least have a roadmap of what to expect.

Either the line is drawn somewhere or every rolls over and plays dead.

Cheers,

Welcome to the CX graveyard, dd......many have gone before.
Management always wins, like it or not.
And many certaintly won't.........:rolleyes:

411, mgt. always wins, yep Lorenzo sure is a winner, banned for life from the business, Goodwin at UAL sure is a winner, ****-canned quick, Delta sure was the winner against Comair, although it cost them 500 million, yes sir, mgt. always wins. What a crock.

Dallas Dude, it's people like you, who despite numerous warnings continue to attempt to inject some reasonable debate into shrill arguements, people like you will never, never shoot under par. Looks like you are dropping your left shoulder. EX. TRVSTITE FLT.

So Basil the entry requirements for flying are as high as for law and medicine are they. Law and medicine are cerebral disciplines, flying, as can clearly be seen by the quality of these postings is not. Most pilots I know have not been to university and wouldn't qualify to get there. Flying requires mechanical co-ordination and some additional capacity, not rare gifts.

Seriph - what nonsense you spout ! I taught flying at one of our University Air Squadrons some years ago. Some students were good, some average and many were so poor that I assumed that their academic achievements were in under-water basket weaving - and some of those were medical/legal students. As in aviation, university success is gained by graft and application, and occasional cerebral input. Pilots make cerebral decisions in seconds, most other professions can take hours and even days. Finally, I remind you that a legal degree does not necessarily require university attendance.

Seriph, you are obviously mixing in the "wrong circles" (judging from your previous, IQ-elevated posts) if "Most pilots I know have not been to university and wouldn't qualify to get there."......but then again, the "most pilots I know" are more likely to be Week-end Warriors, who don't rely upon aviation for an income, but rather as a means of R&R.

Your conceited statement "Law and medicine are cerebral disciplines, .............not rare gifts." is a load of BOLLOCKS!
Anyone with a photographic memory is EASILY able to pass the required examinations - OR with the RIGHT family ties!

I have about as much faith in the practicioners of Modern Medicine (for the diagnosing and treatment of routine medical matters), as I do in tea cup readers!!

But back to to your original statement. It's seems more than co-incidental that so many of your espoused "Cerebrally disciplined, professional, law and medico professionals, endowed with 'rare gifts' " consciously and knowingly manouevre their aircraft (usually complete with pax) into a fatal termination which pilots, "who have not been to university and wouldn't qualify to get there." and using their "mechanical co-ordination and some additional capacity" are able to avoid!!

You may consider yourself (and some of your peers) "Rarely Gifted", Seriph, however, in the REAL World you might find that you don't even qualify for a position in the "Survival of the Species", based on common sense, logic, and lateral thinking! :D

I agree with Seriph, in my experience in aviation (professionally for 30 yrs) there is no correlation between flying and academic ability. I know professional pilots who had difficulty achieving 5 GCSE's but no doctors. It is necessary to have a degree to qualify in law. If not a law degree then a CPE course can be done at the Law Society's schools but you must have a degree to qualify. Seriph certainly touched a raw nerve with you Kaptin, obviously hit the mark. What is your degree in? Certainly not logic.