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IFALPA/BALPA Cathay ban.

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IFALPA/BALPA Cathay ban.

Old 28th May 2002, 18:58
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niknak
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IFALPA/BALPA Cathay ban.

Today's Flight International contains a notice placed by BALPA and IFALPA telling pilots that they must not apply for or accept jobs with Cathay.
I think that I understand the reasons behind the notice, but what happens if you did apply or accept, will you be excomunicated? get a midnight visit? Never work in the civilised world again? What are the implications?
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Old 28th May 2002, 20:22
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Think it through...

The implications are you'd be working for a company that a year ago, unilaterally & illegally sacked 51 pilots.

So, are you going to take yourself and your family out to HK, and work for a company, where you have no assurance that they are not going to do the same to you at any time?

Ban or no ban, you'd have to be mad or desperate to take a job with CX and their present management. Probably explains why no-one turned up to their last recruitment day in London.
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Old 28th May 2002, 20:28
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A tough call...

You can play their game, take the training then make your decision as to whether you really want to support that type of management culture...

----------
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Old 28th May 2002, 21:02
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Just another view, if youíre a pilot out of work, need a job, family to feed, mortgage to pay and not your fight in the first place, wonít these guys put there families first ?

Before you have a go at me, Iím not looking to work for Cx or out of work, just opening up a debate on the matter.
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Old 28th May 2002, 21:38
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I understand and would support a Union action if it was backed by the membership. CX 'A' scale members allowed the 'B' scale - to their benefit. CX 'B' scale . . . . To my understanding, since the spate of sackings, there have been Command upgrades . . . . to the positions their own 'A' 'B' or 'C' scalers may have been in.

I would consider a job with CX to a certain extent but I do not like their 'Management' style. However I also do not like elitist RAF plonkers and anti-podian perfectionists.
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Old 28th May 2002, 21:42
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The so called "ban" has been demonstrated as an abject failure...the guys in the HKAOA are "really" getting desperate...illegal "sackings"...complete nonsense...looks like it was "according to contract"
Clearly, managements' actions are intended to to show that "management" is "in charge"...not a bunch of whinging pilots.

The company shareholders would expect NOTHING less.
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Old 28th May 2002, 21:54
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Mr 411a-b (failed)

You think you understand Pilots. Try again. There is Honour. However this is normally associated with a (C)ivil understanding of other people. From my observation of you're previous comments you seem to miss this point.
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Old 28th May 2002, 22:15
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I'm with 411 on this one...

NoJoke (no pun intended) when was the last time "honor" was a currency honored by the bank?

From what I've seen in this business since 1978, honor belongs to the "haves" at the expense of the "have-nots".

Exception being the Comair guys last year...

(by the way, taking the training and leaving puts one in the same boat as one who trains and flys, so go for it guys...)
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Old 28th May 2002, 22:32
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DownIn3Green,

I've done the course(s). Presently 9,700 hrs Fixed & Rotary. Oh dear, but there you go. The whole point of my post was those who should be looking.
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Old 28th May 2002, 23:14
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A legitimate question. I simply do not know what the repercussions are, and they ought to be announced. Iíd like to know what ALPA intends to do to those whoíve crossed. If ALPA has called for an action they probably ought to delineate what the consequences are. Are those who cross going to be denied membership? Will they be terminated if the union wins its demands? What punitive action can ALPA take?

Telling someone, ďOh youíll be in big trouble if you doĒ might work with teenagers but probably not with adults.

Here in the US we had pilots crossing the line at Eastern (EAL). Many of those pilots are now denied jumpseat privileges and have difficulty (impossibility) getting a job with the majors. Many though have found employment at non-union carriers (AirTran). Those are the consequences that evolved from the bitter strike at Eastern, and itís 11 years latter, some people canít let go. I canít imagine CX being that contentious.
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Old 28th May 2002, 23:21
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I'm with touch&go on this one.
Also, in relation to the unions, this action amounts to a "closed shop" scenario. I will not be told or even mildly "threatened" by any professional association/union as to whom I can or cannot apply to and work for. As previously stated this is nobody elses fight, and perhaps the situation would best be resolved from the "inside" of CX, but it seems those much more closely related bretherin do not have the desire to put up a proper fight.
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Old 29th May 2002, 02:17
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Question

>>Here in the US we had pilots crossing the line at Eastern (EAL). Many of those pilots are now denied jumpseat privileges and have difficulty (impossibility) getting a job with the majors.<<

On the other hand, the pilots who crossed at Continental received full amnesty from ALPA last year. They are working with union pins while many of the Eastern strikers never turned another wheel. Some of the pilot unions seem to be better at name calling than getting jobs for their unemployed colleagues.

Are the HKAOA refusing to do training or accept upgrades until their fallen brothers are rehired? If so, maybe their threats have some weight...
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Old 29th May 2002, 04:00
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I'm no fan of the way CX do business but I find the behaviour of some of their alleged employees just as bad. IE, a friend of mine joined CX cargo at SYD recently and now he and his wife and kids are the subject of foul and abusive 'phone calls in the middle of the night from people claiming to be CX pilots.
Its no way to behave and further your case guys.

And, yes a couple of my friends are 49ers.
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Old 29th May 2002, 05:45
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A few things need to be crystal clear.

Firstly, there is no picket line.

If there is no picket line, no one has crossed it.

Secondly, the gutless ******s who're calling people I know in the middle of the night for taking a job with Cathay are not reflecting well upon the ideal, and I say that loosely, of repugnance and 'brotherhood bonding' in times of trevail.

Identify yourself, and you'll be out of Cathay before you hang up the phone you cowards!

How dare you.
 
Old 29th May 2002, 09:15
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Good point airbubba....the answer is no...the commands vacated by several 49-ers are filled by the same folks calling new-hires scabs....pretty silly ?
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Old 29th May 2002, 10:28
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Thumbs down

Despite looking I am not sure what Cathay's current requirements for new hires are, so I am not sure that the specifics of this apply to people like me. However seen in a broader context I do have a question.

I have been looking for that first proper break for a few years now. I scrape by doing whatever job comes along, hoping that lady luck will look my way again. Apart from my o'levels and highers , my only other qualifications are for flying. To get these I borrowed £40,000 which I still owe. I understand the importance of solidarity and presenting a united front as pilots, in the face of management's mis-management, but since Balpa has been sod all help in my employment search and offered nothing in the way of support or information since Sept 11th why should I listen to them? I need a job flying and if this was a chance to get going, how could they vilify people such as myself who would consider taking a chance like this?

Let face it, looking for a job for a low hours CPL/IR like myself is akin to looking for a needle in a haysatck at the moment.
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Old 29th May 2002, 11:40
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Just a couple of points:- 411A is wrong as usual, contractually there is a disciplinary and grievance procedure which was not used. Secondly, whilst not in any way approving of threats or anonymous phone calls from AOA members with CX's management techniques don't forget they (management reps) could well be making these threats and phone calls to alienate the AOA.
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Old 29th May 2002, 12:31
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Fair point. I do not know how likely it is that management would do such a thing, but as I am told that the police are involved, all calls are taped and a trace is in place, I guess the guilty party(s) will soon be identified.
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Old 29th May 2002, 13:15
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Despite what 411 believes the IFALPA ban is having an effect.

A retiring RAF acquaintance was invited to interview in HK this month. CP was completely up front about the ban, both before he flew out and when he arrived at CP. He was asked at the interview whether he intended to accept the position before or after the ban.

He also said the other interviewees (11) mostly had very low levels of experience. Not criticism, just a fact.

No doubt there are some folks that don't (and never will) "get it".

They'll sit in their ivory tower watching principled people make tough decisions and continue to make their own hay for the time being.

Until they're the last one left when management says, "Well, we'll pay you a fiver for your service 'cos that's all it's worth!".

CP (not Turnbull) has privately admitted that they'd enter talks with HKAOA about the 49ers if the ban is dropped.

HKAOA has said recall the 49ers and the ban can go away.

An olive branch is needed.

Cheers,
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Old 29th May 2002, 14:42
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dd, ever flown a TriStar?
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