I have only briefly browsed through this thread and I don't see any comment to why the emergency slides were deployed. The opening of the overwing exit is clearly done by passengers, but what about the deployment of the slides (right front and rear left can be seen in the pictures)? I guess that was done by the crew, but was this a result of the chaos and the crew needed to release the pressure? Since only two slides can be seen; why weren't the two others deployed?

If the a/c is on stand it is a nightmare - steps or jetty at or approaching front left, possible baggage teams and other ground equipment on the right and maybe steps coming up to back left. One of the most difficult evacs to do.

at BMA at LHR many many years ago (707 and DC-9's)

if the a/c was still on stand and was boarded or boarding then the main exit to use in an emergency was the jetty attached to the a/c plus the rear stairs if a set was in place on the 707 (and the ventral air-stairs on the DC-9 32)

Normally no slides were to be popped as no doors would be armed at all at this stage. (the DC-9's also had the tail cone slide)

if the a/c was closed up for departure (doors armed) all ground equipment should be clear of all main exits unless skipper knew a hold was still open for late bags, in which case the ground engineer would be on a headset pre-pushback

Aircraft arrival on stand and an emergency evacuation situation occurs (we never had one) - if no jetty or stairs already in place then the doors/slides would all be popped - If the jetty was already on then the main exit to use was that.
That's what we were trained for AFAICR

I don't understand about the EMA Jet2 733 - the press and on here mentions ''emergency landing''
did crew declare or know of an emergency before landing due to the cabin smoke or did all this happen after landing and/or on shut-down on stand?
all the press reports are rather hysterical and I cannot fathom the chain of events.
If the emergency/smoke was known prior to landing then an immediate Evac onto the runway surely is desirable if cabin smoke not clearing or is worsening?

If the Jet2 emergency/smoke occurred right there and then on shut-down on stand and pax getting ready to disembark then i can see the potential for pax having cabin bags already in their hands and ground equipment moving in to service the a/c.
this all complicates things to a higher level in an Evac and will become confused and perhaps difficult to control.

If that was the unfortunate scenario then also all comms might be difficult with everybody inside and outside just at that moment if power was interrupted (see Aless85 comments about PA/intercom on 737 Classic SBY/BATT power) and ground engineer/ground crew was not seeing what the flight or cabin crew was intending

anyone put me right here appreciated thanks - edit just seen BOAC's comment above mine

the photos indicate all slides deployed except maybe Door1L or were the steps put on after the EVAC?
the flaps are shown down and both o/w hatches opened and that Door 1R slide has not deployed correctly - reason unknown.

Perhaps, since so much booking activity is online, there's an opportunity to oblige SLF such as myself to be obliged to answer a couple of the most basic questions relating to the procedures in the event of an emergency would not take much time.

Additionally, if boarding cards can feature a seat number they can equally indicate the nearest emergency exit to that seat (given that it's available in the event).

Yes, it's spoonfeeding, but the issue of orderly evacuations seems to be a problem.

reply to Nialler
 

Nialler most Evacs do not happen planned and most are on landing

therefore in a catastrophic and unexpected event such as BA38 or the AF A340-300 over run at YYZ the question of which way you go/turn/head/jump/crawl/climb to get out may or may not be that which is most logical or that printed on your boarding card.
ie where you ''came in''

when you get seated on board spot/note the doors in front and behind you on both sides and count the seat rows to them
read the door/hatch opening procedures - if you see any obvious huge fatties/kids/infirm or real oldies are seated by or even in the exit row then tell the C/C to move them - end of.
BTW the hatch to be thrown out may weigh up to 50LBS.

if you are at the over-wing hatches some have to get thrown out and some just pop up
and to just say put on the boarding card where you evacuate would not work!

in the old days we used to print on the boarding cards seat rows 1-15 board by the front door and rows 16-32 board by the rear door -
SLF still took no notice and that was 30-40 years ago!

BTW we never allocated exit row seats at check-in for those who clearly were not permitted to go there

Nialler: "Additionally, if boarding cards can feature a seat number they can equally indicate the nearest emergency exit to that seat (given that it's available in the event)."

Have you considered that the reason airlines do NOT tell you where the nearest exit to your seat is, is to protect you, in case of the unfortunate possibility where THAT exit becomes unavailable due to, for instance. a fire on its outside to name one of a not limited amount of options?

If you tell SLF to get out of THAT exit, they WILL, and risk their lives versus getting out of a SERVICEABLE exit elsewhere, which could save their life.

I understand all this, but are you telling me that the CC are not controlling the exits?

Additionally, why does the briefing specifically include an instruction to locate he nearest emergency exit? Doing this "fixes" its location in your mind more strongly than merely indicating its location in a schematic on the boarding card - that's because you are doing so visually and in the here and now.

What I find a little bit offensive, though, is something that is permanently evident in these discussions; the presumption of stupidity on the part of your passengers. Guess what? If I were seated such that the rear exits were nearest to me, and if in the event of an emergency the exits were unavailable for egress I would seek the nearest exit forward of me.

Stupid Pax...
 

On literally every flight I've enjoyed for the last ~ 15 years, the safety briefing is largely ignored. You see people surreptitiously listening to their MP3 players, reading something, or talking non-stop to the person next to them - all while the poor FA is trying to give them information that will save their lives if something happens.

There is also some degree of mindless "civil disobedience" amongst modern-day passengers. During taxi, out of 150 people, you will probably see at least 1 idiot who just has to grab something out of the overhead, or just has to use the lav.

So, it never surprises me when I read about panicked pax opening doors, etc. when some minor emergency occurs.

They can't listen when the heat is off, what makes anyone think they'll listen when things are very serious?

Out of a couple hundred flights, I've only been unlucky enough to not get a window seat a handful of times.

At this point, in case of an emergency requiring evac, I have resigned myself to simply staying put in my seat until the rest of the idiots are done breaking legs, grabbing carry-on, taking snaps and selfies, and tweeting about the incident...

...unless I see great great billows of smoke or the cabin floor starts to get very hot - then, look out. Of course, I'll still listen to the FA(s) and I'll help anyone I can along the way, but if you're in my way at that point and just goofing off, you'll just have to stand aside a moment.

I just wish everyone had the great respect for flight deck and cabin crew that I do. I've been very lucky in that I've never had to be part of an evac and I hope that never changes.

But really... You don't second-guess a plumber when your commode is running over, so why do these people just ignore the trained folks whose job it is to keep us safe?

Cheers!

Nialler, I know what you mean but day after day we, like most people who come into contact with the general public, experience the most baffling of behaviour. Even when things are going well and there is no emergency, people do the most amazing things. Too many people also fail to listen to what they are being told and miss vital information. The Jet2 evacuation at GLA shows some of facets of passengers. There are the gawpers and rubber-neckers (who now take clips on their smart phones), the selfless few who, without being asked, helped the evacuating passengers off the slides. And then there's, well let's call her Jean and people like her. When on the wing of the smoking 737 she noticed that there was no slide. She thought it better to re-enter an aircraft she had left to go to a door with a slide. She also apparently told others to do the same. Yet she was shown the way to go by two girls ahead of her who jumped off the wing.

It's not all one sided. We are as guilty as the next guy in splurting out a constant stream of verbage and pointless guff, purely because a bunch of clowns with MBAs think it would be nice or whatever. As a result, passengers treat this "cabin noise" much in the same way as I treat unwanted calls and junk mail - and ignore them. I'll also admit I do the same although I pay attention when the words are different or the tape is changed. Unfortunately, some of the stuff that is ignored is important. Maybe our friends in the AAIB may cotton on to this and make a recommendation that the ratio between the marketing :mad: and safety PA's be adjusted in so passengers actually listen.

And we must also consider the people's automatic response to danger - Flight, Fight or Freeze. Yet our passenger briefings and training assume only compliance - and even on a good day, that is most unlikely. Which is another reason why we really must re-consider the subject of aircraft evacuation.

passengers are not stupid

they are just normal human beings in an environment not familiar nor usual to them and likely many are stressed before they even get on board

today people in all walks of life, and means of travel including the car fail to
grasp what their safety is all about and the lack of their own awareness
that trait seems to be increasing that it is someone else's fault

over-wing exits are not manned normally on most airlines hence the chat
from the crew before take off that you know you are sat at one

Technology and media
 

Technology and Media can subconsciously help a passengers understanding of what to do.

Many airlines have adopted the drop down screens to show the safety briefing, the better ones use eye catching visuals or humour to get the message across, obviously it cost money to install support and run these systems, but done properly it works.

This is much more difficult on old mixed previous owner fleets, but ordered from new its cost effective

rog747
f you see any obvious huge fatties/kids/infirm or real oldies are seated by or even in the exit row then tell the C/C to move them - end of.

Sure and the CC will listen politely and do your bidding?

roninmission

I have in recent years quietly spoken to C/C on several
occasions on various airlines where children, very elderly/frail and large passengers using lap belt extensions were incorrectly seated in an o/w exit -

Yes C/C do listen and will deal with it but they cannot control what happens via on-line check-in systems or failure by check-in agents

with greatest respect its up the individual what to do but apathy is not in my training as an airline professional (retired)

This is the core problem in many airlines, especially when using associated allocated seating.

Pax can book a ticket and choose to sit at the (over-wing) emergency exit rows.
Pax can book and choose all adult tickets, as sometimes no financial gain is to be made from a child ticket anyway, saving you time and effort during booking process.
The seat allocation process cannot then verify the age of occupants in the emergency exit row, pax are happy for extra legroom booked (and sometimes paid for).
Gate staff check boarding passes for valid flight, not ages in rows of emergency exits (repeatedly heard gate staff say to pax seating issues will be sorted by cabin crew on board, even though at gate there is plenty of time vs in aircraft limited time before departure).
Cabin crew are now faced with a situation they have to rectify, but with pax having paid extra for the bit more legroom are thus hesitant to leave their allocated premium paid seats and will revolt.

Start by changing the IT issue in the beginning of the sequence and problem solved! :ok:

Changing IT systems is only part of the issue. The ultimate decision has to rest with the cabin crew and they must be supported in their judgement. If they deem a passenger is unsuitable for an over wing exit, then that decision has to be final. If CAs know they will always be supported, they will adhere to the spirit of their company's regulations. Unfortunately, there are too many instances of the cabin crew saying one thing and being incorrectly over-ruled by others, including the flight deck.

How about this for a suggestion.


As we now have to get to the airport what seems like a fortnight before our flights, a quick and easy computer based test can be administered to all passengers before boarding. During this, the emergency procedures for the specific flight can be taught and anyone failing the test 2 or three times will be denied boarding to prove they have taken on-board the information.


It will make life safer for the rest of us.

A 'filter' could be written into the online seat booking process.

All it would need, when someone clicked to reserve an overwing exit seat, would be a pop-up window (flashing with a fanfare to attract attention if required!) saying something like:

You have chosen to reserve a seat adjacent to an overwing emergency exit. The exit is a confined space and can weigh in excess of 20kg. If the cabin crew consider you are not capable of operating the door and exiting in the event of an emergency you will be asked to sit elsewhere in the cabin. DO YOU WISH TO PROCEED WITH THE RESERVATION OR CHOOSE ANOTHER SEAT?

A few lines of code, that's all.:ok:

Judge11, I've been asked that very question by online check-in systems on several occasions. I imagine that a certain percentage of online bookers will simply lie. The technology isn't up to THAT yet!

You can arrive on the plane having had no contact with a human being belonging to the airline. So it's often down to the CC.

Best bit of common sense I've seen was by an SW C/C. She'd spotted I had my ID on, that I'd forgetten about, and asked me to sit in the exit row.

I've picked up a 737 door, they are not light. About 20kg or so.

My brother came up with a novel plan, why not have pax licenses? Could be done in a day.

Does anyone really believe that a safety briefing, a safety card or a online quiz will prepare a passenger for an emergency?
Today, as far as I know, the merchant navy require a basic 5 day safety course, add another 10 days for officers and you will be allowed to set foot on deck.
In my days at sea we had drills every week in evacuation, fire fighting and first aid for two to four hours at the time and still, in every emergency I encountered at sea, be it grounding, fires or accidents someone froze, panicked or got it all wrong.
And you expect the average passenger to behave rationally in an emergency in a, to them, unfamiliar environment?
Better consider us all worthless and plan accordingly.