Does anyone really believe that a safety briefing, a safety card or a online quiz will prepare a passenger for an emergency?


Not really but it will remove some of the Darwin candidates from the cabin allowing the rest of us a chance.

I'm fortunate enough not to have gone through it, but an emergency evac is one of the things I worry about when on a flight. Who's in what seats between me and the exit. How is the 120lb 5' flight attendant going to deal with the 7' 300lb idiot going the wrong way?

But from videos (who the hell thinks that's a good time to make a video?), one of the most asinine things is the flight attendants screaming. That to me induces an air of panic. It's one thing to give out an authoritative order in a loud manner, quite another to scream. Is this just the FA's panicking themselves, or is that the training? What's the aim of it? It's concerning to me that people will give undue attention to a seemingly panicked FA rather than their full attention to exiting the aircraft in an orderly, expeditious manner, following plain, authoritative instructions.

It reminds me of the TSA loons shouting at no-one in particular in a condescending voice. Gives the air of an uncontrolled operation. It worries me that this is officially "OK".

Flew out on a UK airline on Sunday. Three of the pax in the two exit rows in front of me had headphones in while the cabin crew gave the special briefing for people in the overwing exit rows and paid no attention. Cursory attention from the rest.

Flew back with same airline today and the pax next to me found a small package left from the previous flight in the seat pocket. Proved to be harmless, but not identified in the pre-flight security check.

From the comments of some posters in this thread, there seems to be a suggestion that these deficiencies are down to the regulators, but to me it seems that they are down to the airline with whom liability rests. In both cases had I survived an incident/accident, I would hold the airline responsible for failing to exercise a duty of care. Airline managements have to put in place proper measures to ensure that safety and security procedures are being complied with.

In post #68 Rottonray mentions "Civil Disobedience". Actually this is Criminal Disobedience. Let us make no mistake about this.
In the days of going for a £6.99 burger and expecting 5 star customer service, it's important to remember who is in charge when you step onto an aircraft. It's not Nando's or the post office, and if the Captain or any of the crew says "Sit down, stand up, turn around 3 times and sing us a song" then, however unreasonable it may seem, that's what happens. You can talk it through with Customer Services later.

16024.. Thank you ... that's all that needs to be said.

This whole conversation (thread) boils down to the simple fact that SLF looks upon CC as if they were waiters. And that's actually their usual experience and perception of flying, having no idea but from movies and yellow press of what an emergency can be.
A word from the cabin crew in the initial PA to remind passengers that CC is in the first line there to keep people safe wouldn't cost much, I guess.

And that "word" is almost always mentioned by the flight deck welcome on-board PA prior to push back and start-up.

But then they probably don't listen to that either:ugh:

Well, then stress that word, walking down the aisle, showing the emergency exits and so on. I can only remember of videos one could hardly differenciate from a stupid ad' for whatever sale product. "Safety", you said? It starts with personal commitment instead of pressing a dumm button on a screenplay.

16024 hits the nail on the head.

As SLF , can I make a suggestion, for one make the announcement heard over the rabble thats just boarded, Yes it WILL annoy regular customers, and probably cause the rest to complain, whys' it SOO loud, but half the time, when I've been on a plane in recent times, its been difficult to hear what cabin crew are saying and the Captains announcemnt's are barely audible, but then that doesn't just apply to Jet2 , had same on Thomson, and AA ... unfortunately as has been said on here before, people just don't take any notice , unless your really in their face.. so maybe a bit of deafening instructions to begin with will get their attention... gets me those that don't listen are usually the first to complain about something that's wrong.. of course the only other thing i could suggest is that the plane doesn't move until everyone is paying attention:E

takeoff, valid points especially for those who are hard of hearing such as the elderly.

Whenever the PA is verging on inaudible I always make a point of informing a member of cabin crew.

take-off
 

Airlines have made a rod for their own back with a certain airline treating its cabin crew as sales staff first and safety staff a very distant second add other certain airlines flying aircraft so old that the PA has the output fidelity of an early pathe news report, flight deck that mumble or can't be arsed, what do you expect .

Not all airliners. If you have the oportunity to assist to an, for instance AF's FA briefing before departure, sometimes even w captain directing it, you will note how serious they prepare as a whole crew and individually, in each station, how they stablished the procedures, who is in charge, assign personal tasks. How they check all the emergency equipment for availability and proper working condition, how they demand and even stop the flight should something is missing or malfunctioning.
At that time, no other problems like maintenance, catering, operations will be adressed, only passager and crew safety. This requieres time, training, discipline and, of course, money. In my experience, this is very similar for many full fare airliners
I had not any experience neither I expect such a meeting in a LCC.
At the end, everything goes down to "You get what You paid for".

I am not entirely certain what you are insinuating as your English is difficult to understand, but by my reading it appears that you "might" be insinuating that LCC operators don't do all of the preparations that you have described. If that is the case then I believe you are very much mistaken and are making a huge assumption that you cannot substantiate. I believe, certainly in the UK, that ALL operators regardless of their low fare or otherwise complete all such safety briefings and pre-flight checks of the safety equipment, and are all highly trained in it's use. So, in the UK (I have no experience anywhere else so won't generalise) you are correct, you do get what you pay for, you will ALWAYS get highly trained and professional crew who know what they have to do and when they have to do it, that includes "shoving" the door to open it to release the slide, and that most definitely will always include being shouted at in a sharp manner when required to evacuate, it tends to make people hurry up and get off, just what we want. They aren't panicking, they are doing what they are trained to do.

The trouble is you're dealing with the public. Some of them are smart, but many are not. Anyone remember how so many pax were gobbing off about the awful cabin crew shouting at them and pushing them down the slide if they hesitated when Virgin had their smokey evac? They are too stupid to realise that the crew are there for their safety and too stupid to pay any attention to briefings or immediate instructions, and they then blame everyone else. Shame these people can't be identified at boarding and sat in seat with delayed release belts that only open when all the cooperative and intelligent punters are out, (if at all)...

Johnny.. hear hear.. saved me having to say it.. M84 you have just demonstrated your ignorance of these matters in public

The solution is surely to mention the escape path from overwing exits in the safety briefing. Slides are mentioned after all. Any passenger seated there needs to be briefed that they would need to open the hatch and when to do so.

My most recent flights in the exit rows have all been with easyJet. In every case the flight attendant was assertive in demanding exit row passengers' attention before briefing them in detail. Obviously everyone says they are happy to stay in the exit row when asked. A warning about how heavy the escape hatch is might put some people off sitting there though. A 20 kg escape hatch is as heavy as the baggage they checked in, but unlike that is not on wheels and may need to be lifted in a sitting position.

Lefthanddown, it doesn't matter what you put in the briefings or on the cards if the punters pay no interest in it. I keep the PA selected on on my selector at a low volume, and if I hear the cc pause the demo a second time to tell folk to pay attention, I put the brakes on and make a similar comment. I have thrown a handful off for continuing to be disruptive during the demo in the past, but we shouldn't need to get to that stage if the passengers were more reasonable. Stopping all sales of alcohol in the airport would be a good start to improving behaviour and attention on the aircraft, I think.

Yes and cabin staff not over-serving would be good too.

Ron...
 

There isn't time on most UK hop flights for that to happen. What does happen is the two hours in the bar beforehand, and then bottle of vodka or JD they smuggle on to keep themselves going...

Jet2evac
 

We have now arrived at a time, certainly in the loco market, when the CC are now employed more as sales people than guardians of the SLF's safety.

1.Management recognise this, hence the vast majority of time on recurrent training is "sales technique" or some other meaningless "take me there" rubbish.

2. The SLF accept this as the norm, wearing headphones, reading their paper, picking their noses, chatting or whatever comes to mind rather than watching/ listening to the safety brief.

The sole guardians of the whole operation are usually the crews, both flight deck and Cabin. They try, and usually succeed, to do their best in very challenging circumstances; getting little support from management (see 1above) and no respect from the SLF. (See 2 above)

Most of the time it bumbles along OK until something goes wrong, say an unplanned evac. Then all hell is let loose, SLF videoing it on the their phones which should be off but frequently aren't. The press (oh dear), sensing a scoop, construct a "we were all going to die scenario", and subsequently the pax, sensing a claim for "compensation" as "we were all going to die." It was in the papers!

If we recall the BA 777 crash at LHR, next day, the crew were treated as heroes; full press coverage with the Captain and FO paraded in the full glare of BA's headquarters. A similar incident with a LOCOs and what happens?

Jet2 Emergency Landing at East Midlands
 

Ah yes FR had a duel engine failure on short finals due to multiple bird strikes. It's barely mentioned... I do agree that the CC are treated as sales dolls. But in saying that any emergency situations that have arisen in the two loco carriers I have worked for the CC have dealt with it very well. I had the opinion at first they were a little dim. I was surprised and well I do believe they deserve respect. However I agree with the point above. Managers above them see them as a sales tool. Primarily!

Hope this isn't a dumb question.


With reference to the UK, are cabin crew licensed by the CAA, with a statutory "syllabus" of the training required for the safety role?

Q. How much is that down to previous experience learned/earned in other carriers, and brought across to be inherited by the lo-co?

I ask, because in a number of cases that I have experienced, a very experienced CC has taken the required action, thus halting the sequence of events that would otherwise be a major problem.

I was seriously disappointed when cabin crew briefings on safety related items lasted for less than ¼ of the time allotted to sales, and the current 'prime' product.
And that is the norm in many places.

Pozidrive- Cabin crew are not licenced. But they do have to undergo specified training course. On completion they have to demonstrate by examination that a minimum level of understanding has been achieved. Just like pilots.

To the rest of the contributors in this thread may I say thank you. The subject of passengers and their safety is getting the input it needs. The complicated problem of briefing modern passengers and then getting them to comply with safety instructions when necessary will be a tough nut to crack. Unfortunately, like all complicated problems the solution will not be simple. Issues such as respect (or lack there-of) for others, unrealistic expectations by members of the public, inaccurate and poor researched reporting by the media, poor back-up by the legal system, lack of realistic oversight by the regulator and near the top if this incomplete list; a cynical lack of focus of what being a member of cabin crew is all about by virtually everybody who comes into contact with them.

I fear however, we will only move towards a solution when we start maiming and killing people. Our only hope of a rapid solution is that a charter flight full of politicians gets into distress.

Thank you Piltdown Man.


I didn't know if there was a statutory qualification or an NVQ.


I am aware of the situation at sea. The difference here is that certainly on cruise ships there is more time available for safety drills. Also incidents develop over a longer timescale than an emergency in the air?


Shorter ferry crossings are probably a better comparison - a loudspeaker briefing, which may be easily ignored.

RYR cabin crew carry a licence, but I don't know whether that is an IAA or just a company thing.

I would dearly love to see a change in terms - if they were called cabin safety crew, then it'd cause a change in mindset towards (and in the cases of the small minority of their more immature members, by) them. In the same way, I hate being referred to a Flight Deck - it is a deliberate misnoma that encourages others to dehumanise us and think of as as an aircraft component rather than a trained professional. Call the cc safety crew and I reckon it'd change passenger attitudes quite quickly and management attitudes too, eventually.

M84. You know it's funny, I was crew for a LCC. All equipment was checked at the start of every shift and handed over to the next crew too. If you didn't see the next crew you checked all safety equipment. Sorry but a plane full of pax is not the time to be checking you have the correct number of first aid kits, or that O2 bottles are stored correctly. If you have a plane full of pax, then you need to give em your full attention and maintain situational awareness, and not be faffing about.

You seem to have some beef with the LCCs. You missing the days or airline regulation? Isn't it time you got over that?

Safety Awareness
 

To me the big problem is we are trying to educate the average flying Joe within a very small window during the initial brief. What it requires is a more detailed audio visual brief. Better animation or actual "live" condition shots to explain anything from donning on a life jacket to cabin filled smoke evacuation.

This process does not have to just take place once just before take-off. How about ongoing education...if we educate the mass flying public, the system as present, can cater for the first timers.

We could have safety snippets during your movie...irritating yes, but driving the message through...while you are having your on-board meal.... how about ads on the Discovery channel...

I suspect we have a culture of not wanting to upset our all important paying guests. Strange, when most reality TV shows now-day's delight in participants being either degraded or made to feel really uncomfortable....sounds familiar to air travel.

Companies now believe that the current briefing system is the best we can do.....in all fairness, it is far off the mark ( no disrespect to the safety guys who put a lot of effort into the background work & R&D ).

How about a TV show where the participants battle the elements and fellow competitors to exit the mangled, burning and obstacle ridden wreckage for a cash prize ( or in LCC terms, a free ticket to Malta ) ?

Come on Richard, you up for the task ?

I see EK have just had an evacuation. Full service airlines evacuate! Who knew, I thought it was just LCCs who evacuated.

Well, what do you know their pax evacuated with their bags, despite their fancy safety video and mightily superior cabin crew, the likes of which us mere LCC crew can only aspire to.