Basil, reading your profile you appear to have the credibility to post here and for that reason would strongly suggest that you retract your comment. The reason should be obvious.

Besides, the press are doing a good enough job bashing our profession and this individual without such ill judged support.

As an aside, in the same AAIB bulletin, another crew managed to generate hard EGPWS warnings arising from an unstable approach. This did'nt make the headlines but I would warrant any professional pilot reading both reports would conclude that limited cognitive ability far outweighs the risk of corrected physical ability.

darkbarly,

My sentiments exactly.

Some peolpe should be ashamed of themselves, I do not say this because of your opinion of having pilots flying with prosthetics or any other disability, but because of the way you express that opinion with a complete lack of respect or empathy.

How about just getting him a prosthetic arm which won't detach so easily?

Let's not forget here, with all these flipant remarks, that we are talking about an individual who has my sympathy to have been caught up in a publically discussed scenario.

As a pilot however, I am surprised to hear that these days with an artificial limb you can hold a Class 1 medical and operate a commercial passenger carrying airliner. I am not aware of the intricacies of todays artificial limbs (plainly they are not failsafe) and I can well understand that some people feel uncomfortable with the thought that the pilot of their flight might have one; indeed I would too. In challenging weather conditions it can be quite an art to control an aircraft at TO and landing with four fully functioning limbs let alone with one of them being artificial.

If this person is, as Flybe state, 'senior and trusted' would it not be more appropriate to employ them (should they wish), in a training or managerial roll so complying with the law on equal opportunities?

I of course have never flown with people who have an obvious disability like this gentleman. I have undoubtedly flown (intentionally or unintentionally) with people who have other disabilities.


1. Those who demonstrated they were generally incompetent and managed to bluff their way through training.


2. Those with " mental" disabilities such as depression.


3. Functioning alcoholics or those with drug dependencies.


4. Cadet types scared to phone in sick who in essence were disabled by sickness.


What do our colleagues really think about us... easy enough to get through a Class 1 medical

JoshuaNKomo - I concur with what you are implying and there are many who undoutably should not be flying but that does not mean that it is necessarily right for anyone with any sort of diability to pilot an aircraft for hire and reward. IMHO

For those throwing their hands up in shock horror, may I suggest you read this article about ACM Gus Walker RAF. He used to fly a Meteor 8 with just one good arm.

Pocklington History - Gus Walker

The AAIB report is not the result of an investigation, but a simple statement of the event from the captain. Evidently he handled the situation very well, with one good arm and one good brain and only a few seconds to sort the problem.
Not enough time to hand over to a first officer, whose qualities are not specified.

There was evidently no damage from the heavy landing, and the 47 passengers noticed nothing unusual for a landing on a gusty runway in Northern Ireland.

The captain's eight thousand hours, with 1,871 on type impresses me with his first rate experience and the respect of his employer. Missing a limb does not disqualify you. No doubt the technical problem of the arm attachment will be sorted. Overworked pilots who end up camping in the pilots lounge on lowpaying regional airlines would worry me a lot more than a man who has shown he can deal quickly and sensibly with a technical problem.

How many crashes due to pilots missing 'bits", how many due to normal pilot incompetence? This incident ha not increased my worry level.

So IYHO what would you deem acceptable as a disability to fly public transport aircraft, or do all pilots now have to be 100 % perfect astronaut material, then at the age of 25 be retired.

Will have a talk someday with the doctor when I have my medical again, what standards apply these days, with what exceptions.


As for this case, this in my book is a nono :=, would not share the flightdeck with anybody with a disability of this sort, CRM or not. Too dangerous with already before stated "all the other things that can go wrong, often with a cascading effect... Enough other jobs in aviation available for these aviators. I already have problems with collegues wearing glasses, but I guess I tolerate that.

Was it a 'Captain's' approach due to being out of First Officer's limits?

If so, would there have been a suitably qualified pilot in control of the aircraft for the landing in this circumstance with the Captain [technically] incapacitated and the FO out of limits?

I know FOs practice Captain incapacitation drills as a part of their training, but surely it would be prudent for any medical assessment of being 'fit to fly' to be based on the scenario where (in this case) the pilot with the disability must be able to prove he could maintain control if the limb became detached AND the FO was incapacitated/out of limits?

The one overriding factor in all training scenarios (including explosive decompressions, bombs onboard and double engine failures, for example) is that there is ALWAYS a procedure that should ensure a successful outcome in any event. There is NEVER a procedure which does not have a checklist nor an event that does not have a means of achieving a successful result.

We never train to fail.

This situation does it seem, in theory at least, provide the potential for an scenario with no successful outcome.

I reckon the CAA medics will know more about this pilots disability than anyone on here and have approved the issue of his licence's medical.

Given that they took away my Class 1 for a considerably more trivial medical issue, I'd have complete confidence in that CAA decision and therefore this pilot's abilities.

This is a complete non-issue blown up out of all proportion by the BBC who should know better.

goudie, Just one small difference: Like our one-eyed co-pilot, ACM Walker wasn't flying a civil aircraft with paying passengers on board.

Firstly thank God some peolpe here are not in charge of issuing Class 1 medicals as 80% of us would be out of work by the age of 50!

All in all this was just mechanical failure, fix the problem then move on. Good luck to the chap involved (and if you're reading this thread....don't bother!).

Correct.

And the AAIB is, of course, at liberty to follow up any event brought to its attention with an appropriate level of investigation, ranging from telephone contact with the personnel involved to a full field investigation, and to make any safety recommendations it considers necessary based on its findings.

Clearly it didn't consider that any such action was required in this instance, unless anyone is suggesting that there are additional facts it was not made aware of ?

If this captain is who I think it is, he's a very very very good operator who is an asset to any company. Was already flying commercially when he lost his arm in a piston-single-propellor mishap, and went through hell and high water with the CAA to get his class 1 back.

I'd fly with him over 99.99% of able bodied pilots I know, any day.

This guy knew that his "medical" would be highlighted when he volunteered the report. All the more credit to him. Many pilots wouldn't have the balls to report a heavy landing for fear of a blot on their copy book - but this guy risked losing everything.

I think he has shown that the CAA medical board were entirely correct issuing him with a class 1 medical. He has clearly demonstrated his ability to land the aircraft safely in challenging conditions with the loss of one arm at a critical phase of flight. I wish him a long & safe career.

If anyone can be bothered to go back to the first page of this thread, Fostex at reply 4 gave you all a link to the CAA Medical website to a page entitled "Medical Certification of Pilots with a disability.

Under the sub-section "Amputee, Upper Limb" it starts,

"Single upper limb amputations usually represent little problem for certification. Pilots often use a prosthesis which can be clamped to the yoke and in general the prosthesis does not need to be certificated by the CAA, providing that failure of the prosthesis (e.g. falling off the stump) would not result in the pilot losing complete control of the aircraft."

He did not lose complete control of the aircraft. He caught it, the same as if your sweaty hand had slipped on the controls, and I've seen that a few times.

Please read the document before you spout off in the ignorance that has been shown on the first few pages here.

I admire the pilot and his skills and wish him the best. The only thing I find curious is that while every mechanical piece of the plane has been computer tested for strength, probably of failure, wear characteristics, etc., the most important mechanical device on this plane didn't get the full aerospace engineering scrutiny. If life and death mechanical aids are to be used to interface the pilot to the plane, is there some way to ensure those devices are as good and reliable as the rest of the planes interface devices (yoke, rudder pedals, etc) ? Perhaps some way to certify the clamps and latching devices.

Edit: noticed CNN has this on their front page

think about it

if an approach / landing is not going well, what do you do?

GO AROUND


The captain could have applied full power (throttles forward) and then called for full power and the copilot would have verified, set full power and THEN the captain could have used his right hand to pull back on the controls.


They could have flown around and fixed the problem and then tried the landing again.

Glen,

So you would have them apply G/A power with absolutely nobody's hands on the controls?

Some years ago, a friend told me that he was on regional airline a type rating course with a bloke that had lost his arm in a light aircraft crash on the other side of the planet. Said individual regained his medical, moved to the other side of the world and got a job with a low cost airline operating aircraft with a side stick controller. He wasn't able to complete training due to being unable to operate the side stick due to his disability. He then went to the regional airline and passed a TR on a turboprop with conventional controls. I have no idea what became of him.....

I think that the CAA should have a rethink about the incident pilots ability to hold a medical and the airline should give him a training or management role. I know it isn't politically correct to say that. But when you are pairing up new FO's with a Captain whose arm falls off in demanding conditions; oh come on.

- not a nice thought!

His arm didn't fall off, his "hand" came away from the yoke. Significantly different events.

The arm falling off is from CNN's headline: Pilot's false arm falls off as he lands passenger plane

Nice going CNN. The report said it detached from the yoke clamp. Not sure if the yoke clamp IS the hand or if there is another 'hand' but clearly the arm didn't fall off. It was some sort of mechanical failure between the clamp and arm.

The captain that successfully dead-sticked the TACA 737 on a levee after a dual engine power loss only had one eye (IIRC he lost it when he got shot in the head while flying an evacuation during a civil war).

I suspect a high percentage of commercial airline pilots - without any sort of physical handicap - could not have done as well :ugh::ugh::ugh:

Personally I'll take a highly skilled pilot with a physical disability over a physically sound mediocre pilot. :mad:

I think I have been in the back of said pilots aircraft 2-3 times.


And I wouldn't hesitate to do it again

The problem is not with the pilot, he's fine. It's the mechanical arm created by the medical industry, likely assembled by an intern, with likely no thoughts to air worthiness or reliability. If they'd certify the arm components like the rest of the aircraft I'd fly with him all day everyday.

For all of you who feel this more than capable, obviously highly skilled, motivated individual should be assigned to an office, ground duties, simulator or some other role than flying because of using a prosthetic arm. Or those of you who feel less than capable of operating as a crew member or are uncomfortable with someone who has a prosthetic limb, wears glasses, or some other disability even being allowed into a cockpit having passed probably a more stringent CAA class 1 medical, been tested in a simulator to higher degree than themselves with a normal class 1 medical, or feel they know better than the medical advisors at the CAA, should sit down, take a deep breath then reflect on their comments posted here.

How many of you would even bother pursuing the CAA to retain a medical after loosing a limb to continue flying, never mind continuing with your airline job ? probably not many of you, most would take the easy route claiming their loss of licence insurance, early retirement pension and take the airline for everything they could get.

Give the guy a break, I for one would rather fly with him over most pontificating on this forum, the 100 hour button pushing wannabes or the infallible been there got the tee shirt ex military types.

The only reason this thread was started by the original OP was because the guy had the balls to put his head above the parapet and report what had happened, only to have it picked up and most likely blown out of all proportion by the gutter press, the passengers had no idea other than a bounce and a hard landing.

Well done for your perseverance and I hope the publicity does not affect your so far successful career.

If the CAA allows medical exceptions , they are just that : exceptions, and rare events , and given after serious considerations and very often after a long process.
The guys that get those exceptions are generally exceptional people , and this case proves it again , if I read the post of Airjersey earlier.
I hope he can continue his carreer and I will be proud to fly with him.
I did not know Flybe but, reading the comments they made after the event , sounds like a very good airline to fly with too.

flap, boac and others

yes

you move the throttles and a well trimmed airplane will maintain speed (climb), you call for max power and move your good hand to the control wheel.

now, granted, it takes longer to read than actually do.

try it in the sim some time, assuming you really know how to trim.

while some planes may have unique handling qualities , a straight wing turboprop would probably do just fine.

add power in a 737 and the nose will come up, underwing engines don't you know?

now, I'm not saying that once you call for max power, you don't move your hand to the yoke, but try it .

glendalegoon - I can only assume you've never flown the Q400, you're suggested course of action at that stage in the landing in those conditions would be moronic. Please never try it.

As for those commenting on the individual involved, I suggest you only do so with full knowledge of the facts. He's a good guy and a better pilot than I'll ever be. I will continue to operate with him without a seconds hesitation.

I wish this chap all the best. I too have heard from pilots on social media who have made statements in his defense after being bombarded with questions of 'have you flown with this guy?!' Nothing but fine things to say about a guy who has flown into Belfast on many occasions in horrendous condition without incident. Even this wasn't a terrible incident. I'm sure most of us have been in a squeaky bum situation where we thought....S*/T! But it was a non-event because we have 2 arms.

But what I'm curious about is how would you fly from the right seat if you've lost your left arm? There are 2 yokes so if there was a failure of the left limb as a Captain, the F/O could wrestle the aircraft out of trouble with his/her yoke and give you time to sort yourself out.

However if you're flying in the right seat and since there is one set of throttles...surely you can't clamp the arm to the throttles?! If there were to be some sort of failure of the limb and it is stuck to the ONLY set of throttles I would imagine you could be in some sort poo.

Pardon my ignorance. I am sure they have come up with a procedure and everything is safe. I just cannot see what it could be. Unless you can only fly from the left.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=b2IqpPSF9-U

Political correctness gone absolutely mad and I thought the FLYBE Director of flight operations response could be a "Gerald Ratner" moment for the company.

So how many other disabled pilots does FLYBE employ .....and what is the nature of their disabilities? People are scared enough as it is already about flying without being unwitting bystanders to FLYBE's experimenation with their well being.

How about an explosive decompression, an emergency evacuation, fire and smoke on the flight deck? How would the guy cope?
Clearly not as well as an able bodied counterpart......

For goodness sake we only let able bodied pax occupy seats next to emergency exits!!!


Fair play to the guy concerned, hes only doing what hes been allowed to do ( and if Im correct he had to come all tne way from Oz to find someone to employ him?) but at the end of the day this was an entirely forseeable event and at the very least he should be restricted to flying with trainers who are used to recovering a situation from an inexperienced trainee.

Have you not heard of simulators, LPC, OPC. For those who don't know this is when the chap involved would have had to go through simulated emergencies ie. engine failure/fire, decompression, fire/smoke in the cabin, fuel leaks, incapacitation, double hydraulics failure.........need I go on.

He has been issued a Class 1 medical by the CAA not Flybe, they have just employed him because he is suitably qualified.

It's obviously a safe situation but surely the mechanics of the false arm (or false anything else) should be manufactured, certified and checked to aircraft standards if used to fly an aircraft.

WOT WORRIES ME.
 

A commonly quoted statistic for aviation accidents quotes 70% due to "pilot error".


In that case maybe the medical authorities should be looking ever so closely at that 50,000 year old microprocessor which occupies the space between the ears of us articulate Bonobo Chimps, who have occupied the driving seats of Public Transport aircraft.


Remember UK CAA mandated twice yearly ECGs on the over 40s for many years post Trident "PI" at LHR, til a few years ago when it reverted to the over 60s?


Doubtless the brave and honest Flybe Captain will arrange an improved prosthetic device and we can all go back to waiting for the next major hull loss under the control of 100% complete flight crew unable to fly a visual approach!


Lighten up folks, there are more important flight safety hazards out there, a lot of them flying desks at YOUR airlines HQ??!!

"Arm down and locked" added to before landing checklist?