Problem in the cockpit. A rapid climb to FL450 for what ever reason, resulting in a stall, aircraft falls off, banks left, turns 130 degrees plus/minus and recovers in the mid 20s. Then on to where, and why.

I just want to ask 2 Q's to anyone with B777 Tech savvy.....

1. What damage would be caused to Avionics and, eventually, Nav A/T and A/P if 2 cups of coffee/liquid were dropped/spilt on the centre pedestal.?

2. How many water activated ELT's are carried on the B777.?

Towhee

this can not happen to the B777 as the O2 in the center tank is replaced with nitrogen.

It catches fire, or something on the same circuit catches fire...

A lot of non-pilots seem to be posting comments about taking things out of the pilots' control.

If you folks insist on flying my airplane for me, you'll have to get yourself a type rating and do it right - I won't be on board.

nliving,


Just curious as to your slow cabin depressurisation theory. Would'nt the cabin altitude switch automatically drop the pax oxy masks at a certain cabin alt/trip point WELL BEFORE pax fall unconscious.


Also, as the B777 is equipped with oxy generators overhead in the cabin for the pax. How do you measure the oxy litre flow, as the generators don't have gauges attached to them?

B777 has 1 airframe mounted ELT and 2 portable ELT's.

Pax oxy auto deploy is dependent on the system being armed.

The B777 has no oxygen generators. It is bottled crew and pax oxygen. Oxygen pressure is indicated on the Status page

system is always armed. auto deploy can not be shutoff and masks drop automatically at approx. 13500' cabin altitude.

A grizzly thought, would PF climb to FL450 after depressurizing the cabin to ensure all on board are KO'd because the drop down dixie O2 is not enough. At that altitude a pressurized O2 mask is required.

That was my thought, too... It certainly would make sense and would be the easiest way to eliminate any possible "problems" from pax or cabin crew.

Hate to break the bad news, but the all,the fleet of the 777 a I fly have chemical generators for the pax. I guess it's an airline option.

It would be very interesting to see what was simulated....if that data was recorded.

Article in a a Canadian newspaper
 

Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 pilots lauded for strong ties to the community | National Post

On the face of it, none of this would seem to indicate deranged or potentially terrorist pilots.

ICAO's GIS does not agree with Burma's declared Yangon FIR boundaries (Burma's ENR 2.1 here).
Skyvector also fails to correctly chart some of these FIR boundaries.

The photographed print of the email (link) sent by the rig worker Mike McKay does not contain an observation time. In his opening paragraph he states, "I believe I saw the Malaysian Airlines plane coming down. The timing is right." It is unfortunate that he did not give an accurate observation time.

In the email he furnishes estimates for distance and bearing ranges. His two references to the initial altitude are "... burning at high altitude ..." and "... at a lower altitude than the normal flight paths."

Considering McKay's postulate with some additional assumptions:

1. target at a distance of 50 km to 70 km from rig,
2. target on a true bearing of 255 to 285 degrees,
3. target at an altitude 10,000 to 25,000 ft AMSL,
4. target instantaneously adopts a random course after observation and glides without turning,
5. glide ratio is between 6:1 and 12:1,
6. no wind,
7. spherical earth

and assuming a triangular distribution for (1) and (2), a uniform distribution for (3) and (5) and a discrete uniform distribution for the new course in (4), then the 99% confidence ellipse for a 10,000 iteration Monte Carlo simulation can be plotted (link to map; link to coordinates).

Although this location falls to the east of the area initially searched by Vietnam, debris drifting SW at 2 to 3 knots would by now have travelled about 400 to 500 NM to shore. Furthermore, the McKay scenario appears to be contradicted by the significant additional evidence alluded to by the US and Malaysia indicating a westward crossing of the peninsula followed by prolonged flight (cf. 'pings'). It is not convincing that a burning aircraft would endure prolonged flight of 4 to 5 hours. I think we can therefore set the McKay observation aside vis-à-vis MH370.

Valujet 592 fits PERFECTLY!

While they had time to issue a mayday, maybe the malaysian crew were taken by suprise and didnt get time.

RR and BA did receive two...
 

...data transmissions, so the AC's equipment was subscribed and registered. The cell phone that's pinging without being subscribed should really have its settings mobile network boxes unchecked. That is what you would expect from a professional outfit like an airline.
I am puzzled by this pinging. If the electronic equipment and antenna is intact enough to send a signal to a satelite or cell tower, then why doesn't it send a datastream, even though there may be no data to collect due to other equipment failure? I strongly suspect that the military traced a different airplane, one that crossed paths with MH370 near the point where MH370 flew out of civilian radar range and lost the transponder. The pinging is generated by the plane that crossed MH370's path, but is not generated by MH370's equipment. Possibly the AC that the military radar tracked shot down MH370 or collided with it and kept on flying. That maybe why it chose the track along the boundaries of ATC's, so as to fall between the cracks, sort of speak.

They have got that from here? I know i mentioned it a few thousand posts ago.

Exactly...777 will not handle speed/g force/etc. Wherever that took place would have a large amount of debris as the plane fell apart.

The gruesome idea that the plane went to 40k and then depressurized to knock out the cabin is pretty horrible...but hypoxia would be faster than hypothermia.

Each day this story turns more and more into a bad movie plot.

It's already been posted, the data is likely in error and it didn't drop 40,000' in one minute.

Doesn't fit AT ALL.
The ValuJet flight was over in minutes after the fire was detected.
Sure.. they didn't have time to utter a single sentence but instead had hours to wonder through the airspace, trying different directions, altitudes.... :ugh:

It is not about one person. No stone must be left unturned. The people who had the opportunity must be looked at objectively and that includes securing any evidence that might shed light on their innocence or otherwise. The longer they leave it to forensically examine the Home SIM the greater likelihood it can be tampered with.

I just saw an "expert" on CNN claim that there was a seismic event (earthquake/aircraft crash) in the exact location at the exact time that contact was lost with MH370 and that the area was a "non seismic" area.

Perhaps someone should let him know the "event" happened an hour after contact was lost, and that the area is inside the "Ring of fire" seismic zone! :eek:

All these suggestions about sabotage - maybe just maybe the supposed changes in heading/altitude were just a pilot trying to take control of a major systems/control failure. In the absence of any realistic motive or sabotage plan its possible there is no foul play. We are yet to question the absolute accuracy or detail of these pings and who has decoded them

So, while struggling to gain control, they enter a new flight plan, remain at altitude, cease any comms FOR FIVE HOURS!

Guys, its simple it doesn't add up, but there will be an explanation in time...

Well said. I was thinking the same as well. The fact of the matter is, no-one knows 100% what happened to MH 370. What about the right to be innocent until proven guilty? A lot of people on here making sensationalist accusations with little or no proof. :rolleyes:

It is clear from the path (if the path is correct) they did not have big problems with controlling the jet, they could climb, descend, they could fly perfectly straight and make turns. Frankly the scenario that flight controls are busted and at the same time ALL communications channels are also down while the jet remains airborne for hours is so unlikely that alien abduction is probably equally likely at this point.

well it ...
 

It managed to pass through Indonesian and Thai airspace undetected, which is a bad sign for both countries air defense, if it dropped to a low altitude say -it may not be visible to radar.

Oxygen
 

A very few 777 carriers paid for bottled oxygen option for the pax cabin. Nearly all have chemical generators (plus a handful of portable bottles) for cabin crew.

Stop posting complete claptrap
 

The dumb, ignorant ill-informed nonsense that is being posted about this incident is getting me down. Is there a way to limit posts to industry only, Maybe CPL/ATPL holders....any ideas! Im sure this has happened before but this thread seems the worst ever and media will start adopting some of these far fetched brain dumps as plausible. 40,000'/min descent is a great example!

:*:*

No Smokin hole or water debris ,Nothing, just like the comms.

No answer today, No answers at all. All points to getting jacked .

What does the insurance carriers say? Cargo or pax for ransom?

Someone dreaming to become the next Airheart?

I believe there are roughly three or four posts in this wonderful thread that at least allude to this question.

And it is one well worth asking in expanded form ie any body have LOA of any kind in the area ? Manned or unmanned ??


For many of the 'aftermath' speculations this could fit.

In otherwords, the key critical first event was a mid collision of some kind.

And yes, one can wonder about that other track.

One Malaysian official when queried as to why they let it go over came back with something alone the lines of it '- appeared friendly'.


Many appear unsatisfied with this 'minor' aspect of the tale.

It does on the first pass, seem more than strange that unidentified airspace intrusion of this type is not a concern.


However, perhaps...... this kind of observation is a regular thing ??

And if you think about it, perhaps a regular ( and arranged ??? ) drone crossing point or similar ?


Then, we can look at the media.

To the best of my knowledge, this possibility or speculation has not once been raised, while they are quite willing, in some cases, to go off the deep end with many other.


Well, who knows, but sometimes what is not said is @ least as useful as what is.

CNN Report
CNN Exclusive: Analysis shows Flight 370 crashed in Indian Ocean - CNN.com

"Among the things being considered is whether lithium batteries in the cargo hold, which have been blamed in previous crashes, played a role in the disappearance, according to U.S. officials briefed on the latest developments in the investigation. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to release details to the media.
If the batteries being carried on the plane caused a fire, it still doesn't fully explain other anomalies with Flight 370, the officials say."

I would love to know where the Cargo manifest was disseminated from? And who their source is?
The cargo on board if any is still a missing piece of information here.
Could an uncontrolled lithium ion battery fire in the forward cargo cut all cabling from the avionics to the rest of the aircraft ie. antenna cables etc? Is the proximity forward cargo to the avionics bay and cabling close enough to warrant concern?
New ICAO / IATA lithium ion battery carrying rules were implemented last year world wide.

time to fuel exhaustion
 

Endurance must be less than 7 hours if acft maneuvered as much as now being reported. Especially if most of the flight was at FL230. A much narrower search area should be established based on new data from Malaysian PSR and Inmarsat packets.

Based on known flight to IGARI then assuming acft DM FL230 and went D VAMPI D GIVAL D IGREX anyone want to hazard a guess at the range after IGREX?

most logical explanation so far
 

the totality of what we know at this point IMHO, points to deliberate "hijacking" of the plane by either the captain or copilot. an external hijacker is not going to be savvy or technically proficient to fly through these navigational waypoints, in addition the pilot apparently timed the flight diversion to after the plane left the first country's air traffic control etc.

I suspect this will turn out to be suicide by pilot, I believe for whatever reason he was trying to hide his plot in this odd way. if they haven't already investigated thoroughly the pilots personal life's, financial situation, evidence of depression etc that would be a serious oversight.

Flight Sim observation
 

I find it odd that the First Officer is outed on Australian TV as having broken security protocol by inviting a couple of highschool girls on the flight deck and trying to hook-up with them while they were on holiday in Thailand. I can venture that was not an isolated event as well. The forum's attitude here was that its unfortunate the media portrayed him like that and he shouldn't be remembered that way. Also noting the captain on that flight will likely face disciplinary action (rightly so). Even if, and I'll admit it, they don't look like the terrorist types, it demonstrates a willy-nilly attitude towards his duties and responsibilities on the flight-deck as well as security.

Captain Shah on the other hand, has had no reports of wrong doing (so far). He's demonstrated a love for flying with his #1 Carreer #2 RC models #3 Flight Sim hobby. Contrary to the FO, Capt. Shah is immediately suspect because he has an over the top computer gaming setup? You guys need to give it a rest. Its a hobby, something to throw time and money at and a pretty interesting hobby to many people.

I'm sure there are plenty of people here (myself included) whom some would think they have gone overboard on a hobby and have way too many putters or drivers. Who on here has spent more than $2,500 on a bicycle? Fishing equipment? Home theater system? Classic cars? Gun collection? Ham radio setup?

Also, I'd venture to guess that a capt. wih 18,000+ hours probably wouldn't need to 'practice' cutting the circuit beakers and flipping a u-turn in the sim. More likely, he spends most of his sim time flying WW2 fighters in dogfights or gliders over the Alps.

One more thing, from looking through capt. Shah's youtube history, it appears he was most likely an atheist and certainly not any kind of religious nutjob terrorist candidate.

SKY REPORTING - Malaysian official reporting plane hijacked

Last satellte traces of plane are from 1000 miles west of Perth

Missing Malaysian Jet Said Tracked to Ocean Off Australia - Bloomberg

(post edited to correct error in units: thsnks for feedback)

The reliability of ACARS was questioned days ago by referencing the discrepancies on 9/11 data.