Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

[papershuffler]

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As pointed out elsewhere, and IIRC already on this thread, pax could figure out the plane was off course by looking out of the window...downwards...at the dark sea they were flying over for hours and hours, when it should have been land, with lights every now and again.
That is, assuming they were conscious and the flight path went over the sea for a long period of time.

[StormyKnight]

Originally Posted by JanetFlight

Interesting...

Re Missing Flight MH370: Smoke from North Sentinel Island « Roy Spencer, PhD

Jim Thompson says:
March 14, 2014 at 2:33 PM
From Reuters about a hour ago (1541 EST):

(In reference to North Sentinal Island)

A fire spotted on an island inhabited by the Sentinelese tribe was unconnected to the missing flight, Rear Admiral Sudhir Pillai, Chief of Staff of the joint command, told Reuters

“I can confirm we’ve been watching the smoke on the island by air and by boats along the coast for some time,” Pillai said.

“But we believe it has nothing to do with the missing Malaysia Airlines plane,” he added, saying that it was possible that the fire was lit by the tribe, who are known to burn thick grassland.

He added that he believed the smoke on North Sentinel island started before the aircraft disappeared seven days ago.

[smiling monkey]

Even though I don't the fly the 777, it's obvious that climbing to 45,000 ft is not possible with the load they were carrying still only an hour in to the flight. 43,000 ft is the service ceiling of the 777, so 45,000 ft would be close to absolute ceiling and coffin corner, if they ever got that high.

[FE Hoppy]

smiling monkey Even though I don't the fly the 777, it's obvious that climbing to 45,000 ft is not possible with the load they were carrying still only an hour in to the flight. 43,000 ft is the service ceiling of the 777, so 45,000 ft would be close to absolute ceiling and coffin corner, if they ever got that high.

You need a performance course mate.

[bwohlgemuth]

Math.

40k service ceiling.

40k ft/min = 454mph = 395knots. And that's a straight nosedive from 45k. More than likely that would be at an angle of 30 degrees. Which means lateral velocity would be x3. That means a dive at almost 1200 knots. Mach 2.

45k - 40k descent = 5k to recover....

Lets say they use all 5k and skim 10 ft above the water.

40kft/min = 666.7ft/s / 32ft/s = 21g's That would be spread out over a space of 7 seconds. "ouch"

[CogSim]

Summary

A quick summary to keep us focused:

Official Confirmed

01:07 Last routine engine data transmission
01:17 Sign off Subang ATC
01:21 SSR lost (near IGARI)

Official Unconfirmed

01:21 Malasian military PSR picks up unidentified target at IGARI
No time provided: Target moves towards VAMPI and then towards GIVAL
02:15 Unidentified target turns towards IGREX and is lost on Malasian military PSR

Unofficial Unconfirmed

- MH370 makes a sharp turn to the west (speculation?)
(presumably someone putting together SSR lost of MH370 and PSR pick up of unidentified target at IGARI)
- Acars handshake signal detected for a few hours after SSR lost (leak, via WSJ)
- Altitude fluctuations at IGARI of unidentified PSR target (leak, via NYT)

Rumors

Everything else

[FE Hoppy]

The 40 descent in a minute is erroneous. The other data is from PSR and needs to be treated with caution.

The 45000ft alt is certainly attainable and probably maintainable. For all those shouting coffin corner, remember this is the absolute altitude at 1g. Not the 1.3g normally shown in your AFM. And with a zoom climb you can top out some way higher.

[jet_noseover]

galaxy flyer, sloppy post from bwohlgemuth,:

Can't go 45k and then can't survive a 40k/min plunge. At any angle above 60 degrees you are supersonic. Any angle above 60 degrees, the recovery is over 20+g's.

But at the same time the T7 would shed its parts while going down 40K in one min. Not including ANY angle. Add anything above 30 deg angle and you are talking aerobatics. 777 will not cooperate in this scenario

[Sheep Guts]

If this CNN report of lithium ion batteries is true, then it puts the likely hood of a Malay peninsula fly over as a maybe. The scaling down of the Vietnamese search is not a good idea.

[Towhee]

Fuel? Fire?

. For the flight time to Beijing, the center tank would most likely have been empty except for residual fuel as a matter of 777 procedure. The main wing tanks would have sufficient fuel for the trip. Could a short that caused a spark within a fuel boost pump have ignited the trapped vapor within the center tank?

The National Transportation Safety Board attributes the explosion of TWA Flight 800 off Long Island in 1996 to this cause. That accident involved a 747 and not a 777. Boeing recommended both a mechanical and procedural modification for the potential, but not totally verified, problem for many Boeing airplanes. Airlines began the modifications within two years after the investigation was complete. Did Malaysia Airlines comply with the modification?

From an article.

[wes_wall]

Problem in the cockpit. A rapid climb to FL450 for what ever reason, resulting in a stall, aircraft falls off, banks left, turns 130 degrees plus/minus and recovers in the mid 20s. Then on to where, and why.

[kopatuc]

I just want to ask 2 Q's to anyone with B777 Tech savvy.....

1. What damage would be caused to Avionics and, eventually, Nav A/T and A/P if 2 cups of coffee/liquid were dropped/spilt on the centre pedestal.?

2. How many water activated ELT's are carried on the B777.?

[GTC58]

Towhee

this can not happen to the B777 as the O2 in the center tank is replaced with nitrogen.

[ildarin]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainBear
This is a software and not a hardware issues so it depends on how the software is programmed. MS Windows is a good example. The computer OS knows whether you shut down normally or whether there was some type of power failure or abnormal shutdown. Whether the specific communications software on the 777 operates in a like fashion, I have no idea. I suspect it does not because I cannot think of any good reason why it should.

Maybe an upgrade of the software is required, so that on manual turn off, it sends a message saying "I'm switched off". But perhaps the black box records this data?

For what operational or safety issue, would it ever need to be turned off?

It catches fire, or something on the same circuit catches fire...

A lot of non-pilots seem to be posting comments about taking things out of the pilots' control.

If you folks insist on flying my airplane for me, you'll have to get yourself a type rating and do it right - I won't be on board.

[Capt Quentin McHale]

nliving,


Just curious as to your slow cabin depressurisation theory. Would'nt the cabin altitude switch automatically drop the pax oxy masks at a certain cabin alt/trip point WELL BEFORE pax fall unconscious.


Also, as the B777 is equipped with oxy generators overhead in the cabin for the pax. How do you measure the oxy litre flow, as the generators don't have gauges attached to them?

[GTC58]

B777 has 1 airframe mounted ELT and 2 portable ELT's.

[FE Hoppy]

Pax oxy auto deploy is dependent on the system being armed.

[GTC58]

The B777 has no oxygen generators. It is bottled crew and pax oxygen. Oxygen pressure is indicated on the Status page

[GTC58]

system is always armed. auto deploy can not be shutoff and masks drop automatically at approx. 13500' cabin altitude.

[xcitation]

A grizzly thought, would PF climb to FL450 after depressurizing the cabin to ensure all on board are KO'd because the drop down dixie O2 is not enough. At that altitude a pressurized O2 mask is required.