MountainBear
 

Aviation doesn't exist a bubble. Many criminal activities can be carried out using commercial aircraft.

To suggest that all that matters is stopping aircraft from blowing up is very short-sighted.

If a terrorist, using dodgy documents, takes a commercial flight from A to B so that they can commit a terrorist atrocity, wouldn't it be a good idea to intercept that terrorist before they can carry out said atrocity?

It is simply not acceptable to suggest that AVSEC has no role to play in crime-fighting or ground-based terrorism.:suspect:

At the risk of confusing folks on this forum with facts, a summary map of ocean currents in the search area is at Air-safety and antiterror authorities appear stumped about direction of investigation of Malaysia Airlines jet

...and they ain't flowing north in the South China Sea.

mickjoebill
 

Excellent comment, with which I thoroughly agree.

There is no good reason, expense aside, why a universal biometric ID system cannot be introduced.

The focus of AVSEC is wrong, as it stands. I have been saying this for years. The focus has to be on catching the terrorist, to remove them from the board, not just the prevention of terrorist acts.

I know, from experience, that airlines want the path of least resistance when it comes to AVSEC and they see it as a hindrance, not a useful tool in the wider fight against all forms of criminal activity. That, IMHO, is a shortsighted view.

Murexway
 

That thought has been nagging away at me, too.

We have only the airline's word that all the bags were removed. Where are the bags? What was done with them? Where are the no-shows now? Did they reclaim ALL their bags?

I guess that, unless a whistleblower says otherwise, we won't know whether the airline is telling the truth or not. We'll just have to accept their word that they did.

OK, let's try again without links to other press websites (although the forum rules only cite links to other "aviation websites"):

At the risk of adding facts to this forum, published maps of currents from Oceanographic Society of Japan data show both currents flowing south where the planned flight path approaches Vietnam. One current in the South China Sea flows south past the coast of Vietnam and its southern tip on down past the east coast of Malaysia. Another flows clockwise south along the Cambodian coast and rotating south west and then west from the southern tip of Vietnam and back up the east coast of Thailand at the Isthmus of Kra.

@mountainbear
 

In such a scenario, firstly the communication with the home hub would have leaked and, secondly, in such an emergency situation with no other traffic around (4AM Local?) especially in what I believe were conditions of light winds at KUL, the aircraft would have come straight in over land for Runway 32 and not gone out into the Straits of Malacca?


But to deploy such enormous resources to the grid in the Malacca Straits, there must indeed be information which is not being shared.

What "evidence" (or observation) is there that the Malaysian Government is not being completely open with what they know?

BreezyDC...your 1st post with the link is still there, right where you left it.;)

http://www.pprune.org/8365573-post1596.html

The terror organisations recognise that the sure way to win the current war they're waging against the West is to use the Ronald Reagan ploy of making the war simply too expensive for the other side to wage. If this turns out to be a terroist attack, it's clever, particularly if it can be repeated.

Someone, be it a terrorist who forced his way into the cockpit or a pilot who has been recruited or forced to co-operate with the terrorists, had to have enough knowledge of the 777 to know which nav and comm. functions to disable - and in a very short time - to cause it to disappear (in an electronic sense) in a matter of seconds. After that, it's just a question of getting the aircraft a long way away from the commonsense search area before ditching it or flying it deliberately into the sea to destroy it. (When your foot soldiers are willing to die for the cause, the possibilities that can be employed are endless.)

The effect of two or three similar disappearances will be huge. The incredible expense, both to governments and airlines, in just trying to find the missing hull, will eventually become crippling; the drop off in passengers, as airline travel becomes something less than 100% safe in the public's perception, will hurt the airlines' bottom line; the increased security measures will make airline travel an even more painful experience than it has become since 2001.

All will end up making travel very, very expensive, which means the bad guys will have won, for without easy and cheap air travel, Western society will not be what it has become over the last fifty years.

"What "evidence" (or observation) is there that the Malaysian Government is not being completely open with what they know? "


1. Lack of information regarding the basis for the turn back scenario.

2. Reasons for the extensive high value assets search of the entire Straits of Malacca all the way up the coast of Sumatera.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why, exactly, the Malaysian government has a responsibility to divulge information of any sort to anyone except the families of the passengers and the search teams tasked with locating the airframe.

@Hedge36
 

Agree completely but that was not the question I was responding to.

why should they explain
 

You may think that the airline (or govt) only needs to repond to relatives but all of us do have a stake in knowing that our present and future safety in air travel is assured and will not be subject to coverups.

woodja
Very interesting post and video highlighting a serious security weakness.
Your efforts to bring it to the attention of the powers that be should be applauded. I would question however, whether a public forum along with YouTube are sensible places to disseminate such information. Clearly many on this planet have some weird neuro-wiring, and I wouldn't like to think they got the idea for the next aviation disaster from your video.

There was a punchup with the blockheads some 70yrs ago, and posters on the London underground used to say "Ssshhh, loose lips sink ships!"
I'm not saying this glaring security hole shouldn't be fixed, just that these places may not be the most prudent to air such weaknesses in our systems.

To Mr Hedge 36...

Er......

In the 'Public Interest'..???

hedge36, because we fly planes too, and we're worried it might happen to us..

Well, that's a lovely sentiment. Unfortunately, at this point, without an aircraft there's little one can do but wait. That nothing new has been learned as of yet means nothing has changed with regard to your safety, and no evidence has yet been unearthed regarding a coverup.

Philipat

1 . They said there may be indications on military radar of a 'turn back' and also that those indications might be confirmed by singapore..but no details

2 They are most likely not allowed to disclose details of any information. at least not until the aircraft is found, which might then verify the 'indications of a turn back' especially if coming from another country.

MH update
 

Discussion. Not speculation.
 

Creds: A PP (737/767/A330) who is only SLF when the company makes me.

Does the 777 QRH procedure for smoke shed electrical sources as dramatically as the Airbus? 767 IIRC just sheds high draw items likely to burn up (recirc fans et al) but leaves the AC buses powered. Be nice if I'm wrong as this memory is from my previous type and it's been a few years.

Shed electrics and descend (in preparation for smoke clearance) and of course LAND ASAP are all standard actions for profuse unknown smoke. I don't have access to a 777 QRH, but it's not a far leap to wonder if the procedure sheds enough electric sources and buses to interrupt the ACARS/Mode C transmissions which have been so profusely fretted over here. Never mind the burdonsome comms while on mask and goggles.

Though it's not as if this scenario has been discussed wrt the 777 lately.

FAA: Some Boeing 777s need fixes in case of fires

If the flight turned back towards land in search of that ASAP landing, they spent no small amount of time flying away from the last known position. I've not seen that map of current search area - apologies if it covers this scenario.

Let's hope not for speedy resolution but an accurate one which prevents another loss.