Plenty of people in Xinjiang could pass for a european some southern - some northern

And KUL is a great airport. Connection times are VERY short, which is the "Good" news. Transit times Europe/Asia (London to Bali for instance) can be as little as 45 minutes. The bad news is, potentially, I wonder how good the baggage checks are??

Google "uyghur people photos"
;)

Has the time ACARS stopped transmitting been established at all?
I haven't read anything definitive about ACARS from this flight so far.
Unlike AF447 I haven't seen anything regarding what the last transmissions of this flight were. If it stopped completely out of the blue that would be an indication towards a catastrophic event.

Yes, that might be very obvious, but some lighter Middle Eastern guys can be surprisingly similar to darker Italians.

There are some Middle Eastern guys located in Indonesia/Malaysia/Singapore.

Whether this will have any bearing on the events or not (AND if the information proves to be true), I agree with the comments above. The immigration officers at KLIA are not the brightest, and on exit their main concern is to find that magical entry stamp in the passport. A non-roundeye holding an Italian passport with an Italian sounding name would probably trigger some suspicion, but someone with a middle-eastern or even fairer south Asian complexion would be given just a passing glance if the computer does not give any warning. Whether the passport would have been flagged as stolen and invalid depends on the Italian authorites circulating the information, then the Malaysian authorities entering that information into their immigration system. As we know, the bureaucracies of neither fine lands are known for their speed and efficiency...

Moreover Italian passport holders need a valid visa to enter China, so there had to be (a real or forged) visa sticker in that passport for whoever was using that passport to be permitted t board, that would have been checked together with the passport at the check-in counter. Now that would indicate quite a degree of determination and preparation, either to get in to China under a false identity (not exactly a risk-free endeavor), or to simply board this flight. I'm sure this is being looked into as we post.

Time Zones - Be aware
 

To pre-empt any discussion related to times. Vietnam is 1 hr *behind* Malaysia despite being geographically to the East.

That is, as I write, the time is 9:23 pm in Malaysia and 8:23 pm in Vietnam.

Keep that in mind when reading reports from different sources and especially the time of last reported contact - which may well introduce a 1hr ambiguity in flight duration.

This may well explain why the supposed crash location is an hour out from KL but is reported as two hours - which would be North of Vietnam.

Indeed, the Uygurs are Turkic people and there might indeed be some similiarity to a Southern European. Also, the photograph on the passport used needs not be the original one.

That said, if (and this is a big IF!) there should indeed be a criminal act involving the person in question connected to this accident, it is a bit illogical to use an airline of a fellow Muslim country for this attack, as despite the large number of Chinese nationals on the passenger list, it is nevertheless a Malaysian aircraft and the attack will rather be seen as directed towards Malaysia than China. Also, criminals in the past have tended to proudly and quickly claim responsibility for such an attack; as far as I know such word is still not out on this accident.

Not even a part of the aircraft (apart from some oil that may or may not be related to this accident) has been found yet, and already the accident is solved by many, it seems. Please be not too quick to jump to conclusions.

All batteries rise in temp when under load due to chemical actions. Batteries out of a circuit in a shipping container have no active chemical actions and would take on the ambient temp.

Weather normal, no mayday and even no location.
Only 2 things come in mind :
- a sudden problem (explosion)
- a unaware problem, cf AF 447
sure we need to wait for the investigation, but anyway, no need to be expert to suppose that firstly.

"Plenty of people in Xinjiang could pass for a european some southern - some northern"


Um, not really. Also, an Italian travelling ex-KUL to PEK would require a Visa and with a cancelled Passport and a Chinese face, the chances of doing that might be slim??

Modern Uighurs also descend from Iranian peoples. I'm pretty sure some can pass for Italian.

There is possibly, a very simple explanation.... Check in with stolen passport (part of a group, milling around etc etc..... Go through immigration with real one?

Couple of Links
 

A couple of other links - stories appearing. No idea of authenticity so caveat emptor! I do not endorse either link.

Malaysia Airlines Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah of MH370 is an experienced pilot. He set up this 777 simulator. - Sharelor

Who is Passenger 84 on MH370 and why is his/her name blurred out? [View Uncensored Image] - Sharelor

"There is possibly, a very simple explanation.... Check in with stolen passport (part of a group, milling around etc etc..... Go through immigration with real one? "


There is this thing called a Boarding Card??

Racial background in Xinjiang is extremely mixed. Plenty of roundeyes In a city like Urumchi in 94 maybe 5% could pass for an italian and there were also a few with blond hair/blue eyes

Chinese passenger jet carrying 220 people in near miss with North Korean missile | South China Morning Post




Coincidence ?

Couple of links
 

Web link - (original post edited to remove link to passenger manifest) - caveat emptor as always and not endorsed by me!


Malaysia Airlines Captain*Zaharie Ahmad Shah of MH370 is an experienced pilot. He set up this 777 simulator. - Sharelor

Try Kunming Station, Yunnan Province. Thousands of miles away from Beijing.

2nd stolen passport on board
 

According to Austrian Foreign Ministry the Austrian on the manifest is well and in Austria. His passport had been reported stolen 2 years ago in Thailand. This has been reported by APA news agency in Austria.
http://www.apa.at/News/6217359958/bo...rschollen.html

There is no reason he should be an Uighur, the 9-11 hijackers came from four countries and shoe-bomber Richard Reid held a British passport. Indeed it has been suggested that Islamist terrorists are now actively seeking Caucasian converts for tasks where being perceived as a Westerner is advantageous.

@Deaf


I think this is a side track. We can't speculate as to what happened yet. Obviously something highly unusual BUT this lost Italian Passport stuff is pretty stupid to be honest. Western Governments cancel Passports immediately when lost and when issuing a new Passport. That would certainly be the case for an Italian who lost his Passport in Thailand and who needed a new Passport.
Also, an Italian travelling to China would need a Visa from a Chinese Mission, which would, first, verify the Passport and, second, LOOK AT THE APPLICANT!!


Can we shut down this blind alley??

Visa
 

Italian citizens like others European ones do not need a visa to transit at PEK PVG or CAN, if you have a connecting flight within 24? hours. Moreover you can now get a short stay visa at some major airports in PRC upon arrival in some cases but better recheck this before leaving...

Is the passenger list that has been published a list of passengers who booked a flight or is it a manifest of passengers who boarded the flight?

Was there cargo or passengers on board from an earlier flight?
Where did it travel from on its previous sector and how long was it on the ground at KL?

@fitliker


The South China sea is a long way from North Korea!!

Flight Plan
 

Tonights MAS370 - Same/Similar routing - different step climbs though.

PIBOS R208 IKUKO M076F290 R208 IGARI M765 BITOD N0480F330 L637 TSN N0490F350 W1 BMT W12 PCA G221 BUNTA N0480F350 A1 IKELA N0480F350 P901 IDOSI N0480F390 DCT CH DCT BEKOL K0890S1160 A461 YIN K0890S1190 A461

http://i60.tinypic.com/5a2qkz.jpg

Of course, we have to work around subjective event at the moment but having been on that airway last week, there is an inordinate amount of traffic on and around the airway. That's one reason why Sanya ask for offsets. I have had TCAS events with no altitude info and one at night that may have been a drone. The yanks meander with impunity to the south of Hainan so it might be anything. A sig structural or bomb..but it must have been quick since no ELT or EPIRB, even from the recorders??
The Learmount thingy with AF is :mad: the triple is completely different and as a John Deere, will not suck you into a spurious control law disparity situation, it's a belt and braces device compared to the Bus.

So are you really trying to argue that almost uniquely among EU member states (and especially Western EU member states) that Italy has no citizens at all who hold its passports who are of Chinese Ethnic Origin???

The question you should really be asking is whether the security systems at the airport of boarding were sufficiently sophisticated that the passport used was scanned and if it was scanned then why didn't an immediate "Passport Cancelled, Stop and Detain Holder" message flash up on the immigration officer's screen? And if a big airport in Malaysia does not have any such automated systems that can scan foreign passports and make its immigration officers immediately aware of forged or cancelled documents then why not?

Having said that I have no idea at all if even a British Passport scanned at London Heathrow or another major UK airport brings up an image on the immigration officer's screen of the original bearer photo submitted to the UK Passport Authority with the passport application in case the actual physical document has subsequently had its photo amended. Even if such electronic data interchange and cross readable passport systems do now exist (post 9/11) between all major Western EU countries and say the USA and Canada I highly doubt that such advanced information interchange yet exists between EU member states and airports in Malaysia..............

Also lastly immigration checks are usually far more sophisticated inbound at an airport than outbound. For instance at London Gatwick the outbound check in the South Terminal now consists only of an automated boarding pass gate and automated photography of the passenger (who knows whether that runs any computer logic of that image against the passport image that is actually on file - I doubt it as it also works for overseas passport holders from all over the world). Although the outbound airline's staff do carry out perfunctory checks of the ticket buyer name against the passport at check in and/or the boarding gate I very much doubt that they have had any serious training in comparing real passenger faces against murky and very small passport photos. To be honest I sometimes also wonder how much training even inbound UKBA immigration officers have had in such matters and/or how much good it has done.

I know but i don't think I've ever been asked by immigration to show them my boarding card.. They have only ever been interested in the fact that i have documents and i haven't overstayed and that I'm not wanted for a crime.....But i haven't travelled a lot in Far East.

Thanks.... i was told about it rather than reading/hearing about it :ugh:

"Is the passenger list that has been published a list of passengers who booked a flight or is it a manifest of passengers who boarded the flight?"


At KUL every departing passenger, quite rightly, must produce a Passport AND BOARDING CARD before boarding a flight. Also, at Check-In, a Visa for the destination country is required. IF an Italian travelling to PEK without a Visa is checked-in, then there MUST have been evidence in an eticket or otherwise, that a connection to be made within 24 hours was made. So that should not be too difficult to trace??

The photo together with name and biographic details are chemically etched into the main page of all EU passports these days, they are extremely difficult to forge without having access to the actual production machinery (hence EU replacement passports are not issued by embassies any more, they have to be produced at a secure facility in he home country). I would rather assume that whoever was doing this was playing on the fact that to Asians all roundeyes look the same, just like in Europe I doubt that many immigration officiers would be able to tell apart two Asians with a broadly similar face based on a small passport photo possibly taken 6-8 years earlier.

The reports which suggest multiple stolen passports were used to board this flight are rather concerning. I’m not going to speculate as that helps nobody but I really hope the stolen Austrian and Italian passports on board are pure coincidence.

That is off Worldwidew
 

Sorry WWW but I take exception to publishing a manifest copy in a public forum when maybe all the relatives of those apparently lost may not have been advised.

It is a very pertinent point you make but I get flashbacks to PA103 when I managed to pick a hole in the TIAS system and could pull the passenger list.

Such things are best kept to ourselves.

Flight Plan Routing
 

http://i60.tinypic.com/5a2qkz.jpg

Fuel for that routing in a 772 is about 50-60,000kgs at least. Roughly 8 hours.

i do not believe that those stolen IDs are accident relevant at all but having 2 stolen Passports used for checkin on 1 aircraft does not reassure me on security on Malaysian airports.

Regarding the terrorist theory, whether or not the passport was false/stolen, it is not obvious how such a person could have created an explosion large enough to have knocked out all power simultaneously. That did not happen at Lockerbie, and the falling elements were large enough to have radar traces.

However, the instantaneous break-up and power-loss did happen with the Air Italy DC-9, thought to be a missile explosion close to or inside the airframe. Again, detailed examination of radar traces helped the theorists to focus in.

Manifest
 

Malaysian Airlines published the manifest a while ago - http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/cont...20Manifest.pdf

Italian passenger

(My quotes never work). If he says he wasn't on the plane but the manifest lists him and he reports his passport stolen - than who was on the plane using his name? And why was it not noticed that this pp was stolen, unless he did not report it which is unlikely. Can that be missed on check in or pass control in KL? Very sad indeed.

Son in Law is British born of HK parents. Refused Chinese entry because he "looked like a Tibetan".