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-   -   Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/535538-malaysian-airlines-mh370-contact-lost.html)

SKS777FLYER 29th Apr 2014 02:46

Apparently a dangerous thought some minutes ago posted merely mentioning
United States Patent: 7142971 assigned to the Boeing Company.

Wouldn't dare to post a link, but would suggest a google of the U.S. patent # which reveals public disclosure:eek: of an interesting Boeing invention which describes........
"A method for automatically controlling a path of travel of a vehicle comprising: engaging an automatic control system of the vehicle"

Mesoman 29th Apr 2014 03:12

Anyone know about this?
 
A CNN 'expert' said that they had not searched the bottom near the area of the first and longest ping detect, because it was too deep for the Bluefin.

This certainly contradicts the impression I get from reading all of the JACC press releases and transcripts, but there is not precise refutation - I've seen no scaled map superimposing the high probability underwater search area and the four ping detects.

Does anyone have exact information to refute this, or might it be true?

Profit Max 29th Apr 2014 04:23

The 'expert' probably stopped reading after the first mission of the Bluefin; the one that was aborted as the ocean was a bit too deep. He might have forgotten that they modified the software to allow the Bluefin to go deeper, which would incur a risk that was deemed acceptable.

oldjimh 29th Apr 2014 05:12

7142971
 
@sks777flier

that's some patent.
surely nobody would install such a thing on a real airplane?
As a consumer I'd not knowingly ride in one so equipped.

Andrewgr2 29th Apr 2014 06:01

Boeing Patent
 
If I hadn"t seen the patent I would have thought we we were in the realms of sci fi. The idea that pilots would 'irrevocably lose control to an automated system' because 'for instance someone repeatedly pounded on the cockpit door" is truly frightening in its implications. But surely Boeing would not file such a patent unless they had some thoughts of implementing it?

Profit Max 29th Apr 2014 06:58

Forget about the patents. All big companies patent everything they can think of. 99% of it will never be implemented.

MrPeabody 29th Apr 2014 07:10

SATCOM Equipment
 
Datayq1,


The beam steering unit is for the high gain antenna system. The beam steering unit receives digital beam steering signals from the satellite data unit. The satellite data unit provides known satellite positions and steering signals to create a beam point.


The antenna then uses the signals to make a narrow beam to the satellite.


The beam steering unit changes the beam steering signals into phase shift data which is sent to the high gain antenna. The high gain antenna then uses this data to aim the RF signal at the satellite.


When the SATCOM finds an active satellite it will lock onto it and attempt a log on. From lock-on the system will simply follow the satellite. If the beam is interrupted, then the system will reacquire the satellite and lock-on again, therefore another log on attempt.


We know that the satellite was indeed acquired by the hand shake communications every hour from Inmarsat.

HeavyMetallist 29th Apr 2014 08:21

Boeing patent
 
If you look at that patent, it cites a long list of (very) similar patents attempting to cash in on, sorry, respond to, the post 9/11 hysteria. In all likelihood Boeing just obtained it as a defensive measure in case such a loony system were ever to be mandated and they found themselves being bent over a barrel for licensing fees. As someone else pointed out, just because a patent has been obtained doesn't mean it will ever be implemented. Nor has it.

InfrequentFlier511 29th Apr 2014 08:21

patents as ambit claims
 
I'm confident that the pilot lockout technology described in patent 7142971 was not a factor in the disappearance of MH370. Most patents are ambit claims, combining a range of innovations into a device that may or may not eventually prove viable. The point then is that any company that makes something that relies on any of these innovations has infringed on the patent. I doubt that Boeing has perfected a complete system as described, but if they have it would be doubly unlikely that it found is way into an aircraft that was flying before the patent was filed.

RichardC10 29th Apr 2014 08:46

Ping arc data released
 
Inmarsat ping-arc data released today via the Malaysian authorities
https://twitter.com/IvanCNN/status/4...043520/photo/1

Very first fit to the data is shown in figure 1 using a great circle at constant speed, fitting the course and start point. No surprise perhaps, the course heads straight for the original search area, so that _was_ defined by the ping data. It's an excellent fit, with the last point only a bit wobbly, an error of 0.6degrees on elevation. The other fitted points are have errors around 0.1degree in elevation.

However, as mentioned a _long_ time ago, the ping-arc/elevation data cannot distinguish courses with smooth changes of heading - they look like other great circle routes. Since the search area changed, then this must be what happened. More to come.

Figure 1: Best fit to the Inmarsat ping-arc data.

First Fit To The Inmarsat Ping-Arc Data Released 29th April 2014 Photo by RichardC10 | Photobucket

sky9 29th Apr 2014 10:36

Are they going to release the Doppler rate if change data in relation to the Inmarsat?

IRpilot2006 29th Apr 2014 10:48

I thought that the entire reason Immarsat was able to distinguish between the N arc and the S arc was because their satellite is not perfectly stationary above the earth but happens to move about a bit, which creates a second doppler shift which obviously varies according to which way the satellite happens to be moving.

DocRohan 29th Apr 2014 10:53

Do we trust this new graph??? I have being searching the net like mad and an unable to find a legit source!....Nothing in the news about it being "released by the Malaysian authorities".
Any one have a legit link???

RichardC10 29th Apr 2014 11:13

https://twitter.com/IvanCNN/status/4...043520/photo/1

Same reporter.

DocRohan 29th Apr 2014 11:35

only reporter in the whole room with a camera??...and a poor one at that!!
It seems from your links that it may have being shown to the families...Not released yet as far as I can tell.

RichardC10 29th Apr 2014 12:11


Not released yet as far as I can tell.
It's called a scoop, I think. Possibly photographed by one of the families.

simmbo 29th Apr 2014 13:09

Ping arc data released
 
Probably just an error in the chart, (or my brain), but isn't the Ping 4 arc inside Ping 1 Arc - roughly -29?

buttrick 29th Apr 2014 13:49

Here's the chart again


http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/...ps008b98dd.jpg

RichardC10 29th Apr 2014 14:00


Probably just an error in the chart, (or my brain), but isn't the Ping 4 arc inside Ping 1 Arc - roughly -29?
Sorry, my poor labelling; '-' in the legend means 'minus'

So Final ping arc = 00:11UT
Ping arc - 1 = 22:41 Ping arc - 2 = 21:41
Ping arc - 3 = 20:41
Ping arc - 4 = 19:41


I didn't model the pings at around 18.30 as it is not clear how they relate to the final constant speed route.

Ian W 29th Apr 2014 14:34


Originally Posted by IRpilot2006 (Post 8456034)
I thought that the entire reason Immarsat was able to distinguish between the N arc and the S arc was because their satellite is not perfectly stationary above the earth but happens to move about a bit, which creates a second doppler shift which obviously varies according to which way the satellite happens to be moving.

Correct the INMARSAT satellite moves in an extended thin North South figure of 8 (geoloocated as opposed to geostationary ) This provides two levels of Doppler shift due to the aircraft and the satellite.


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