Oil from a 777 what types?
 

I suppose we are looking at Engine oil or Hydraulic Fluid and or maybe fuel? Just looking at Marine Traffic, and HMAS Toowoomba is heading towards Ocean Shields position at 23knots 5 hours ago. She must be only 3 hours away by now and I am guessing off to Exmouth again maybe to drop the Oil sample and pick up supplies. Definitely a few days before analysis of the oil.

Bluefin will cover 40 sq km today and the total area size is 47000sq km, potential a very long search then, puts the 6 days ping searching with no result into context, a desperate atempt to reduce the search area size.

has to be hoped that the starting area of the few pings detected yields some clues

well, it sounded from first minute very odd and almost impossible that the chinese picked up a signal from +4000 meters depth with a simple cheap and small handheld locator . and its also very unprobable that the chinese patrol boat is equipped with a top secret state of the art underwater locator which outperforms the systems on hms echo or the towed locator on the ocean shield. no way.

i guess ocean shield and hms echo are the main force in underwater search, the other ships act as a support in visual search .

not sure ( because its classified ) what role the trafalgar class sub plays. little is known what real performance and what limitations its passive and active sonar has and if there is a theoretical chance it can pick up the wreck by active sonar now.

also not sure how much politics play a role. when the trafalgar class british sub searches in a known area i guess the chinese destroyer will make beyond the search also trials ans tests in locating and tracking the submarine for military reasons.

i guess the royal navy may not be amused to present the capability and limits of their nuclear powered subs.

Suggest that aerial reconnaissance will be of limited use for identifying debris on beaches unless the planes are equipped with very high resolution cameras and huge amounts of time are spent analysing the photos. Any coves and beaches which face the prevailing wind will be full of fishing debris and general rubbish - maybe a case for a crowd sourced effort.

"Any coves and beaches which face the prevailing wind will be full of fishing debris and general rubbish..."

As this is my backyard, I have to comment here despite every other comment about WA coast being deleted.

Think extemely isolated, tiny population. There will be some rubbish, but this is not Asia or Europe. The biggest challenge is the isolation combined with the fact that the coast from Geraldton to Exmouth has many challenging areas of cliffs etc.

SAR operations need support services and there are some real practical obstacles to deal with in this region. That is why if someone who has SAR experience in this state has a professional viewpoint on this, I'd be interested to hear more.

It is obviously possible to conduct a search in littoral areas but as with every other aspect of the search for MH370 so far, it would be a tough assignment, depending on how narrowed down the focus area could be. Ideally if some debris were carried to a populated/serviced/accessible area, the job would be easier.

TOMNOD? If we are down to looking for seat coverings and life jackets, I'm not sure this would help from what I've seen of crowd-sourcing up till now. But why not if it gives people the chance to feel involved?

No Load Voltage
 

While that is proof the battery still is holding 3+ volts, once it is loaded there may be another story. I have tested many batteries over the years that tested good with a meter but were unable to function when placed into the circuit.

no-hoper says in #9998:

"Original 3V lithium battery from ULB.18 month overdue..."


lamajoat is right. My "O" level Physics tells me that just because the battery, on open circuit, shows a voltage, it does not mean that it will deliver a current when asked to do so.

It is a disgrace that CVR and FDRs are not equipped with batteries that will perform for a year. Designed for "transponder mode", even the existing battery would give a phenomenal life.

BF is autonoumous. You can input whatever programmed course you want, and let it go.
It has an IRU, and once underwater, GPS will not work. You may drop pingers bounding a larger area, this way, the fish will communicate and triangulate its exact position underwater.
You program it to surface at intervals, 1. to charge the batteries, and 2 to download information thru sat uplink, 3 to receive/change instructions.

You can also program it to surface if a pre-determined event happens, such as a significant anomoly on the mag.

There is a pre-programmed destination, so if all else fails, it will go there for pickup.
Typically, the batteries will last about 24 hours, depending on depth and currents.

I would try to have a mag, sidescan, and PL on the fish...

For the surface support vessel, it should just keep mowing the lawn. You would save time by meeting it at the surface location and swapping out batteries/data pack, rather than wait for the solar charge/uplink.

EDIT: Its only gonna go about 3-4kts, so you dont have to go too far in 12/24 hours

These were not inferences from doppler - the tracks used estimated (read: guessed) speeds. The actual g.s could be quite different - particularly when winds etc are accounted for. Constant airspeed != constant groundspeed.

'i guess the royal navy may not be amused to present the capability and limits of their nuclear powered subs.'


That's why they're sending that particular sub. It's not the top spec apparently.

Please NO ! Not another nonsense PR marketing exercise trendy buzz-word crowd sourced effort.

Surely it couldn't have escaped your vision the sort of absolute codswallop that arose out of the crowed source effort looking at satellite images of an area that is not even being searched anymore ! People were convincing themselves they were seeing what they wanted to see etc. etc.

The only people who should be analysing aerial photographs are those who have been trained in the art and whose job it is to do so, or retired experts, or computer programs that have already been extensively field-tested on other live projects.

Asking Joe Bloggs the armchair investigator to look at satellite imagery is about as useful as asking your pet dog to go shopping for you. Tomnod and other crowd sourcing MH370 endeavours have proven this beyond doubt with their 100% false positive ratio.

In other words, the "crowd" has done just as well as the "experts" with their fancy government satellites and the SAR guys doing visual searches via planes. Everybody has come up with false positives - at least partly because they were searching in the wrong areas to begin with.

I agree with Alchad there, that's correct. Multiple hits on 'items' would indicate it was worth taking a closer look at them.


However I believe in order to make best use of crowdsourcing it has to be pretty transparent (as in Oldoberon's example) and this Tomnod effort felt anything but.


People were increasingly frustrated with the fact that apart from there being really minimal feedback on the efforts of those trying to help, there were significant delays in providing relevant data to be searched, and a lot of folk considered that the images being released did not tell the whole story - in other words, there was a feeling that they were being used in a social experiment for some purpose rather than actually providing a helpful service to the rescue endeavour.


I suspect that there is far greater intelligence available to those searching IRL and that Tomnod's images - though fascinating - did not really scratch the surface of that.


It was interesting to look at some of the images though and probably fairly educational in a broader, kind of lowbrow way.

As far as finding MH370 debris cast ashore, how about publicizing what likely (best guesses) debris would look like and offering a cash reward for the first confirmed find? Offering to pay for things often works a treat.

Re: Black Box Battery
 

Just because the manufacturer has not seen the ULB, does not mean the battery has not been changed. Dukane will change batteries, but the also sell spares kits, and a suitably qualified component workshop (which most global airlines will have at their disposal) is more than capable of replacing the battery using those spares kits.
The MAS CEO stated that according to the maintenance records, the battery was due for replacement in June 2014. That record will have been closely scrutinised already by the Malaysian CAA. At this time I have no reason to doubt it.

Battery shelf life
 

In the April 14 PC Angus Houston kept referring to the "shelf life" of the ULB batteries as 30 days. The shelf life is 6 years. The nominal operating life is 30 days. Just a nitpick. He's clearly doing a very good job.

Yes. If the CVR / FDR goes to the workshop with the ULB still attached, the workshop is unlikely (depending on the financial situation of the airline)to release the unit with less than half life remaining.

e.g. the unit goes to W/Shop at 4 years, battery has 2 yrs remaining, battery replaced.
Replacement battery has been on the shelf for a while, only has 4 yrs remaining, more than half-life, within the w/shop release requirements. That gives 8 Yrs.

Perfectly reasonable situation.

Also to add, that the above is for a situation where the ULB "ends up" in the workshop.
On the aircraft, things will be different. There the ULB will only be pulled just before the expiry date

International "Law of Finds" covers this very well.
Looking at the taphonomy, the Ocean surface currents will keep any debris very near to the source, small movements towards the East, but wind driven lighter material is a different matter.

"International "Law of Finds" covers this very well."

Might do, but out in the back blocks of Aus as a fair bit of this coast is,
rule of "if it's interesting and useful" tends to apply to those who don't
have much contact with civilization ;)

That is of course if they actually realize what it is from !