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OK, so this new object spotted by the Chinese allegedly is 22.5 metres by 13 metres floating in the ocean. Why does the picture in the story "New information...Malaysian Transport Minister Hishammuddin Hussein shows a note from the Chinese ambassador informing him of new satellite images of possible MH370 debris in the Indian Ocean. Picture: AFP Source: AFP" show a piece of paper stating 20 metres long and 30 metres WIDE?????? On another note, I would of thought any "wooden pallets" in the cargo would be smashed to smithereens on impact. |
If a fuel exhausted aircraft impacted the water from altitude then you just wouldn't have 22 metre pieces of debris still floating. Three metres at a push but not twenty two. When an aircraft impacts the earth or sea it is not uncommon for the tail to break off and remain intact, more or less, so a large piece floating, like the fin, could still be feasible. Lawyers: Good luck to the ambulance chasers on this one, the pax are covered by the agreed passenger legal liability insurance, usually stated on the ticket, used to be US$75,000 per pax! It won't be the airline that have to face this one, it will be the insurers, suing the airline for distress etc. is a very long shot as you have to prove the airline is at fault and for that you need indisputable facts, so far there are very few! After all that you have to find a court that will be considered eligible to hear the case and enforce their findings. Endurance: When estimating endurance based on fuel loaded remember the entire flight probably wasn't at FL350 or similar, there may have been considerable height excursions as well as speed and power changes that will have reduced the overall achievable endurance, 08.11 may well have been just that point. |
Originally Posted by felix505
(Post 8394312)
WMKK Kuala Lumpur Control radio traffic 1700-1730Z is available as a downloadable archive.
The transcript suggests there are comms from Malaysia 370 (MH370) at 17:01:14 (+8 01:01:14) The archived radio recording is silent at the time indicated in the transcript. The other times indicated in the transcript also do not bear these communications, through to 01:19:29. Each downloadable file is 30 minutes long, so that final transmission would be at 19:29 in that 30 min file. http://archive-server.liveatc.net/wm...2014-1700Z.mp3 LiveATC.Net ATC Audio Archives One of the transcript links Revealed: the final 54 minutes of communication from MH370 - Telegraph Maybe I have got the wrong day... was it WMKK or WMSA last in contact with MH370? |
@jugofpropwash
If I recall correctly, it was a couple days ago that officials said that the Captain had made a phone call just before departure, and that they were checking on it. Anyone heard any more on that? MORE details have emerged of a mystery woman who reportedly called the captain of Flight MH370 before take-off, raising fears about his motives. Phone records of Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah have reportedly revealed he took a two-minute phone call from a mystery woman using a mobile phone number obtained under a false identity, The Mail Online reports. Investigators are understood to be treating it seriously because anyone buying a pay-as-you-go SIM card in Malaysia has to fill out a form giving their identity card or passport number. This ensures that every number is registered to a traceable person. In investigations into the Captain’s life, police are believed to have traced the number to a shop selling SIM cards in Kuala Lumpur. It was bought “very recently” by someone who gave a woman’s name – but was using a false identity. The news comes as police are understood to be keen to speak to the Captain’s estranged wife. After waiting for two weeks, they will now formally interview Faizah Khan following pressure from FBI agents assisting the inquiry, the Mail Online reports. “The whole world is looking for this missing plane and the person who arguably knows most about the state of mind of the man who captained the plane is being left alone,” said a source close to the FBI team. |
Phone records of Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah have reportedly revealed he took a two-minute phone call from a mystery woman using a mobile phone number obtained under a false identity, The Mail Online reports. We're all human, after all, and lust and passion affect all of us to varying degrees. Acquiring a "secret" phone in a false ID, that no-one knows about, is one way of keeping an affair reasonably secret. The whole world is looking for this missing plane and the person who arguably knows most about the state of mind of the man who captained the plane is being left alone,” said a source close to the FBI team |
It seems that the Captain made a phone call to a recently purchased pay as you go number recently purchased under a fake ID
Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: Search resumes after Chinese satellites spot object in Indian Ocean | News.com.au |
Originally Posted by kappa
(Post 8395353)
Such flight following position information can be provided by an automatic, un-interruptible upload, once per minute, of GPS-derived latitude/longitude, altitude, heading and speed data, on a persistent VHF link when over-land and via a persistent satellite link when out of VHF range, over water. That is not a lot of data, even for what are 30,000 daily overwater airline flights worldwide.
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dumb press comments
Yes I agree with some comments made a good few threads back about dumb comments and pure speculation as to the cause or causes of this incident. The so called experts of the press are reading all this and then dress it up and poke it out on the air. Ive watched enough crap being aired and then remebered a comment on here in a prior thread.
Just to let all know I am an engineer that has been involved in this industry from year 1970 to date and have seen a few tragic incidents in that time. But never in all of these years have I ever been witness to such an incident of this nature. The Malays as far as I can see have handled this well. Yes a few bumbling incidents on TV but lets face it, no one has ever had to face this before so there was no script to work to. As for the slagging of the flight crews by a good few on here I find that just unacceptable. There is no eveidence as yet of any actions by the flight crews that have been proven to have caused this to be where it is. I refuse to listen or accept any ones statements untill the investigation has been completed and published. All your words are picked up by the press and as I said dressed up to make a story for the next edition. The flight crews are members of our industry and we should stand by them in this hour and not allow the reputations to be tarnished. Or is it because some of you veiw them as being 2nd class due to nationality so can be slagged off in this way. Come guys for all we know every on that flight may be totaly inocent and victims of a very tragic accident the likes of which this industry has never seen before. Let the Malays and the other interested searchers conclude this sad sorry situation and we can await the results and act on them as I am sure there will be changes to equipment and SOPs as a result. As for the press reading this I will bet my next pay check that they will not report on this thread, but I am calling on all to support the crews(air & ground) untill such time as the results are published. MAS its for sure a situation no one else has ever faced and I must say I admire the way you guys handle it. If the press handled the coverage a bit better then the pax familys would not be so agitated |
Comprehensive stats state that more than 50% of men have had extramarital affairs. Those affairs are carried out in secret and with deception in mind. We're all human, after all, and lust and passion affect all of us to varying degrees. Acquiring a "secret" phone in a false ID, that no-one knows about, is one way of keeping an affair reasonably secret. |
Latest Malaysian Press Release
Introductory statement Diplomatic, logistical and technical efforts continue in the search for MH370. As we intensify the search and rescue operations, the overall emphasis remains the same: using all available means to narrow the search areas in both corridors. 1. Operational update In the northern corridor, in response to diplomatic notes, we can confirm that China, India, Pakistan, Myanmar, Laos, Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan have verbally informed the search and rescue operation that based on preliminary analysis, there have been no sightings of the aircraft on their radar. With respect to the southern corridor, today two Chinese Ilyushin IL-76s will arrive in Perth to begin operations. The Shaanxi Y-8 which arrived yesterday will be operating from Subang air base in Malaysia. China is also sending an additional two ships from the Andaman Sea to join the five Chinese ships already in the southern corridor. Two Indian aircraft, a P-8 Poseidon and C-130 Hercules, arrived in Malaysia at 18:00 last night to assist with the search. HMS Echo is currently in the Persian Gulf and is en route to the southern corridor. The ship is equipped with advanced sensors that allow it to search effectively underwater. 2. Australian search area Five aircraft and two merchant ships were involved in the search and rescue operations in the vicinity of the objects identified by the Australian authorities, which are approximately 2,500km southwest of Perth. Despite improved visual search conditions yesterday, there were no sightings of the objects of interest. Operations continue, and today they plan to search an area of approximately 10,500 square nautical miles. The Rescue Co-ordination Centre Australia anticipates that 6 aircraft, 4 military and 2 civilian, will be visually searching the area. Two merchant vessels will also be present during search operations, and HMAS Success was due to reach the search area at 14:30 today. Generally, conditions in the southern corridor are very challenging. The ocean varies between 1,150 metres and 7,000 metres in depth. In the area where the possible objects were identified by the Australian authorities there are strong currents and rough seas. A cyclone warning has been declared for Tropical Cyclone Gillian, which is located in the southern corridor. Very strong winds and rough seas are expected there today. 3. Family briefings The briefing for families in KL yesterday went well. The briefing in Beijing, however, was less productive. Despite the best intentions, I understand there were tense scenes. I have received a report from the Malaysian high-level team, as well as a copy of the declaration from the Chinese families. I have asked the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, together with the authorities in China, to investigate what happened. We will continue to engage with the families. We are working hard with Chinese authorities and the Chinese working group to create a more conducive environment for the briefings. I have instructed my technical team to do a review of both briefings so that we can improve them. We appeal to all parties to be understanding during this extraordinary and difficult time. My pledge to all the families, wherever they are, is the same: we will do everything in our power to keep you informed. 4. Transcript The original transcript of the conversation between MH370 and Malaysian air traffic control is with the investigations team, where it is being analysed. As is standard practice in investigations of this sort, the transcript cannot be publicly released at this stage. I can however confirm that the transcript does not indicate anything abnormal. 5. Cargo manifest On the matter of MH370’s cargo, the cargo manifest is with the investigations team, and will be released in due course. Preliminary investigation of the cargo manifest has not shown any link to anything that might have contributed to MH370’s disappearance. As was stated yesterday, all cargo carried on MH370 was in compliance with International Civil Aviation Organisation and International Air Transport Association standards. 6. Concluding remarks Over the past two weeks, the search for MH370 has taken many twists and turns. From satellite images to eyewitness accounts, we have followed every lead and investigated every possibility. Today we are focused on leads from the satellite images announced by the Australian authorities on Thursday. We continue to be updated by the Australian authorities on an hourly basis. I know this rollercoaster has been incredibly hard for everyone, especially for the families. We hope and pray this difficult search will be resolved, and bring closure to those whose relatives were on board. I would like to take this opportunity to thank all 26 countries who are with us in this effort; from ordinary people to the highest levels of government. I would also like to pay special tribute to the men and women from all countries who are putting themselves in harm’s way in the search for MH370. As we speak, people are sailing through a cyclone to help find the missing plane. We are immensely grateful to all our partners for their efforts. |
BrisBoy C: The aircraft suffered a major problem. The pilots started working through the checklists and decided on an air return There have been a few instances of aircraft landing after the pilots ejected from mil aircraft. Taken from the aviationist ..During a training mission from Malmstrom Air Force Base, on Feb. 2, 1970, his F-106 entered an uncontrollable flat spin forcing him to eject. Unexpectedly, the aircraft recovered on its own and made a gentle belly landing and skidding for a few hundred yards on a field near Big Sandy, Montana, covered by some inches of snow...The aircraft, returned to active service after the mishap. The Aviationist » The weird story of a U.S. jet that recovered from flat spin and made a gentle landing. Unpiloted Sure it was a fighter and landed on a flat field covered in a few inches of snow, it still survived enough to be serviceable again. The 777 is built like a tank just look at the video of the San Fran crash. The plane could quite possible have 'landed' on the water and now sunk. If this happened then the black boxes would not be activated, unless they are activated if immersed in water. Probably why all the searching is happening where it is. The last heading / track can be deduced from the pings and a plot drawn. The only problem is what the drift was at the height they were flying. Everything could be at the bottom of the ocean. The water pressure would most likely crush parts of the fuselage but it is that pressure that will stop anything floating up. Eventually due to ocean currents items will be washed up but hundreds of miles away. Suicide / hijacking does not add up any more. There is no reason to suspect 2 professional aviators. Hijacking well forget it, a call would have been made somehow, even by the cabin crew activating ELT's. Lithium Fire that is the number 1 suspect. Just how many Lithium batteries were on board. Why the secret! |
Suicidal Pilot Theory
I'm with Ngineer on this one. One or other of the pilots has likely left the flight deck for one reason or another and was locked out by the other pilot. It would be a simple matter to disable the comms, don an oxy mask and depressurise the aircraft so as to render all other occupants unconcious despite the "rubber jungle" deploying as it has only limited duration. One pilot on 100% oxygen is going to have far greater supply than the supplemental pax system will provide.
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I fail to find any supporting evidence for a suicidal Captain or FO. To be suicidal in nature, means that you will definitely have shown suicidal tendencies in the past.
A human being doesn't just snap and become suicidal within minutes - there's always a history of bouts of clinical depression, and quite often, suicidal thoughts communicated to others. |
The suicide hypothesis is by far the likeliest.
Just google the words "suicide" and "disappear". It's not as weird as people seem to think. Murdering 230 others in the process is also not unprecedented. The likeliest hypothesis: he put that plane down gently in the roaring 40s, a la Sully in the Hudson, opened an aperture (say by lowering the landing gear, or similar) and then killed himself, maybe via a pill. The plane would be at 16000 feet below sea level, with no debris. |
More civil aircaft have joined the search.
From the latest AMSA update: The civil aircraft are two Bombardier Global Express, a Gulfstream 5 and an Airbus 319. The A319 would be Skytraders and it normally flies between Australia and Antartica. |
I have done the NZ-Antarctic trip by sea about 4 times - it is NEVER calm. If it looks calm there is always a huge swell which can be deceptive - like the Great Australian Bight - can appear to be calm but you can't see another ship a few miles away if you are in different parts of the 30-40 foot swell.
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One pilot on 100% oxygen is going to have far greater supply than the supplemental pax system will provide. Also not confirmed how many portable bottles of air were available to cabin crew, (8 has been suggested) Without answers to these questions it is not possible to say that the pilot supply would outlast one or two savvy cabin crew using portable supplies and (if chemical air was available) activating any unused chemical masks in loos or in areas where no passengers were seated. There were at least 50 empty seats although one chemical generator is shared between a few seats. (170 generators suggested) However apparently not everyone can survive for extended periods at 35,000ft without a pressure mask. So like all the scenarios and sub plots of this event, it is possible yet unlikely. More detail in previous posts.. |
AMSA media page
Some interesting maps and graphics on the AMSA media page. They show the areas searched and locations of the sighted objects.
AMSA MH370 Search Media Kit AMSA Newsroom |
Rubbish spotted in the water.
Anyone with SAR experience care to talk about the number of rubbish or other objects that are identified as not relevant to a search in open waters? Over water off the Australian east coast, I did not see many items in the water. In my experience: over land a search observer is constantly seeing stuff and deciding not to call it out because it does not meet some threshold of likelihood. Over water everyone is so "weary" that everything gets called out. "Weary" isn't quite the right word, there is a structure and discipline to observing from an aircraft without missing things. Observing is a tiring thing to do, especially when you see nothing. |
About the "arcs"
Trying to read all posts, it seems that how the "arcs" were found from time data is a little deceptive for many of us. I have tried to make a diagram showing how time stamps can be converted in "arcs": time is a physical value which is measured with a very high precision (I do think it is the physical value which can be measured with the highest).
The sat is very high (35700 km) compared to the "thickness" of the flyable sky (~15 km). And the Earth is a pretty large body (~12740 km wide). From the sat, an even distance to the Earth is a circle, so, if you only know the distance of an object (flying or not), it could be anywhere on a circle. But even a small distance on the Earth surface outside a given circle can be known by the time an electric signal uses to go to this object and back because the time could be measured absolutly with a high precision: even for times as long as many days, you could "see" a difference of a fraction of a microsecond. The sat is on the right (a very BIG sat), orbit and Earth the same scale. The black line around our blue planet is more than ten times too thick relatively at the highest an a/c could fly at this scale... http://i55.servimg.com/u/f55/14/14/01/64/arcs_11.jpg Hope I didn't make errors there and this could help! EDIT: after MM43 post (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...ml#post8395701) and remarks by MP, I will add this : BEWARE: The purpose of this post is just to show the order of magnitude of the travel time of the signal between the sat, the a/c and back. And what could be the time difference for localisations distant of 1/360 of the Earth circumference (that is ~111km). The 40° on the drawing is not the same 40° of "the arc" from Inmarsat data (but not very far) because the 0° is not the pole but the place from where the sat is view on the horizon. Sorry if I have confuse somebody for that: I just wanted to show it was very possible to extract something useful from this data. For many of us, just thinking, it could be appeared largely too small according to sat distance. But it is not. |
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