Ballsout
 

I have to disagree with you, the tailskid is vital for protecting the aircraft from damage, without it a minor inccident involving an inspection and a quick splash of paint would turn into a very expensive engineering exercise.

FNC is a very demanding place to fly from and my biggest fear is that the Jet 2 blame culture will have kicked in.

With the operating conditions at FNC you have to expect to occasionally have problems, airlines need to except this fact or not go to FNC.

I doubt that the Jet 2 HR department will see it in this philosophical way when a witch hunt is far more fun.

Ah. On landing. That's different then if it didn't scrape on takeoff and return to FNC. And if it's more common on landing, it's odd, but I stand corrected!

But surely the cartridge is there to absorb some impact? It's not just a green/red indicator. Also, the SP ones have a longer and bigger skid usually. Maybe it was an SP doing it's job?

Was it an SP with the nice SP kit?

Thrush
 

I was thinking that was an unusual statment ! Having flown the aircraft since 2000 ( with a brief brake in the all electric French thing) almost all the tail contact inccidents that I have seen have been on take off.

I am sure that about 60% of the incidents on take off were partly due to low oil level in the MLG shock struts.

Good article from Boeing on tailstrikes here (pp6-13):

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aer.../AERO_Q107.pdf

which makes the points, already mentioned above, that tailstrikes are more common on landing than on takeoff, and it's the former that tend to do more damage.

- hmm! Not sure many folk would do that:D

Thanks for the link DaveReidUk. I've flown the type for several years also and too was extremely surprised to learn that tail strikes were more common on landing than take off. I'm assuming that is because the vast majority of tail strikes are actually classified as tail scrapes when only the tail skid assembly is damaged.

Well, if there is a blame culture now in Jet2, there certainly wasn't one a few years ago; hardly a culture which fosters flight safety IMHO.

BOAC.. Duh! I'll put my brain in gear. On a day off…! I suppose it would depend on the weight/fuel/weather/winds etc on the day, but unpressurized after a thump you'd not get far.

And thanks to DaveReidUK for that info. I'll have a read on the next long flight.

Some pictures can be seen here at the GPIAA report:

http://www.gpiaa.gov.pt/upload/membr...os/i006379.pdf

As well as the skin damage shown in the photos, the report mentions cracked stringers.

I really feel with the unfortunate J2 crew.

The wind seems to have been within limits, so they just were unlucky to be approaching at that time.

I guess we who fly into FNC, know we have a higher risk of "bending" an aircraft

Makes me wonder, why I keep flying there.

The company does not pay me more for flying there..........so why take the risk ?

I guess most of us like the challenge

Good pics airway… Looks like a fair bit of damage that even the longer SP bumper would not have helped. I notice it was from LBA…. Management pilots on a day out…? I wonder.
More used to the -300 and holding off for a smooth touchdown, maybe, instead of thumping it on as per FCTM, but A and C makes a good point regarding the oleos not being up to pressure correctly.

I feel for the crew whoever it was. But if it was a management day out, the umbrellas will be up, and if not, the kangaroo court will be getting convened.

I see there has been a further update regarding last weeks Jet2's Boeing 737-800WL tail-strike incident in Funchal.

Accident: Jet2.com B738 at Funchal on Feb 17th 2014, tail strike on landing

I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of posters (responders) here don't fly commercially, and [or] if they do, haven't operated into this airfield, or anything similar.

FNC, KOS, INN, SZG etc, have far more challenges than any regular airfield re runway length, topography, MLWs, MTOWs, MSA's and local weather conditions etc.

LHR, STN, LGW etc are busy but very well controlled and straight forward.. So if you ain't been in the hot seat don't be too quick to criticise.

I do fly jets and I have flown to all those places (except LHR). I really feel for the crew concerned and here for the grace of God...... however, if true, a bounce that takes you another 1000' to touch down again is a pretty big bounce to continue to land with. I say that not as a criticism of the crew, I might have done worse, but as something to avoid if it contributed to the event.

Had a similar approach a few years back. Windy but not much turbulence. BUT dramatic speed loss in the flair. Touch down fairly hard but went around, trouble was we nearly hit the ground again. If we had it would have been very hard. I believe ground effect saved the day. Didn't have any more attitude available or I would have hit the tail. Speed loss if I remember was in excess of 25 knots.
I have much sympathy for the crew.

I didn't realise the runway had been extended from 1,800m to 2781m in 2000. It may remove TOW restrictions, but the fickle winds on the approach to 05 are still waiting to trap the unwary. The runway length was only 1600m when I flew the 737/200, so we always had to refuel at Porto Santo on the return leg. The 757, although more of a handful to land there, had the performance to fly non stop to the UK, and for the first time F/O's were allowed to carry out take-offs from FNC.


I just hope the crew are not pilloried for something that could easily happen to anyone operating into Funchal.

Hope you don't mind a quick comment from an SLF but in the GPIIA note, does the scrape not look to be a bit off-centre to port suggesting the a/c was also banked a little bit when it touched? (If so, that's just an observation on the challenging circs, not a criticism of anyone!)

Having operated there for many years, I can report the winds are, indeed, "fickle". But give me FNC any day over any of the Alpine airports with the go-round towards the mountains.

And if you look at the actuals in the Av Herald reporthttp://avherald.com/h?article=47025f64&opt=0 you will see the Rosario wind is very different to the 05 etc etc…. As I said previously, when all the windsocks point in different directions, it's time to tread very carefully.

I have to say though ATC are usually very good at letting you know they think you should bugger off, and in my experience, the wind is never on the dividing line on the chart diagram and they make it clear when it's out of limits.

Thrush
 

The critical thing about the shock strut in the oil quantity as it is hard to check and gets mis-remembered, it is quite hard to get the shock strut pressure wrong but small errors in pressure are less critical than the oil quantity as this has a very important effect on the rising rate suspention to use a motor racing term?