Crash in Laos
 

Thailand TV station reporting 39 killed in plane crash ... No more info as yet.

Thailand TV station reporting plane crash in Laos. Sorry for confusion.

It was Laos. It was a turbo prop where sadly 39 were killed, which im assuming was everyone.

Plane crashes in Laos, 39 people killed: Thai TV | Reuters

Local rag near me reporting it....Flight Inside Laos Crashes into Mekong River: 39 Dead - Phuket Wan

Although the texts say ATR, the photographs definitely show an Antonov 24 (or, more probably, the Chinese Xi´an Y-7 derivative thereof).

Lao Air operate the Xian MA-60.

Reuters
 

A Lao Airlines plane crashed into the Mekong river in southern Laos on Wednesday, according to an airline official, in an accident Thai television channels said killed 39 people.

A Lao Airlines official said the plane had crashed at about 4 p.m. (0900) near Pakse, Champasak province, which is on the borders of both Thailand and Cambodia.

Thai television showed a photograph of the ATR 72 turboprop plane partly submerged in shallow water on a stretch of the Mekong, the tail severed. Another television channel showed what appeared to be several bodies on the bank of the river.

"We do not yet know the number of casualties, our executives are currently in a meeting and will provide more details in the morning," the airline official said by telephone.

Thai media said 39 people were killed, among them two Thai nationals. It did not give the source of the information.

Lao Airlines is the national carrier of the communist state and has operated since 1976. Its aircraft carried 658,000 passengers last year and it has a fleet of just 14 planes, mostly propeller-driven.

It operates on seven domestic routes and has international flights to China, Cambodia, Thailand, Vietnam and Singapore.

BBC now reporting 44 lost.

Reports seem confused:

Registration RDPL-34233 according to FR24 (subject to confirmation).

Passenger list released at 14.00Z.A total of 27 foreigners out of a total POB of 44.

JACDEC says ATR72-600, not MA60. Although initially one would definitely suspect an MA60 as part the story, since this type has some of the worst safety records in aviation and no western country wants to approve it (except MOL, if he had a chance!)

From Reuters:

"Thai television showed a photograph of the ATR 72 turboprop plane partly submerged in shallow water on a stretch of the Mekong, the tail severed. Another television channel showed what appeared to be several bodies on the bank of the river."

Sad day. Aviation in Asia is expanding at such a fast pace, keeping up with it generates a lot more risky environment, be it pilot training, systems update, and experience.

If it is indeed a -600, then we're talking about a brand new airframe.

Just over six months old.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lao_Airlines_Flight_301

Yes, delivered at the beginning of April this year.

That is unprofesional and unfair comment which sounds like a political biased insane judge toward MA-60 even though you got know that it is ATR-600!

Fair point. At this stage we don't know whether technical issues, or indeed anything to do with the specific aircraft type, were implicated in the accident..

As for the wider issue of the MA-60's safety, it's worth bearing in mind what the NZ government has said on the subject, in advice to travellers to Tonga:

"Tonga’s domestic airline fleet currently includes an MA-60 aircraft. This aircraft has been involved in a significant number of accidents in the last few years. The MA-60 is not certified to fly in New Zealand or other comparable jurisdictions and would not be allowed to do so without a thorough certification process under Civil Aviation rules. Travellers utilising the MA-60 do so at their own risk."

NZ government travel advisory - Tonga

Cleared Visual with respect - as you've been a Ppruner since 2007, you should know, as I do, that as soon as any concrete and substantiated information is available, it is posted. There quite clearly is no such information so far.

Worst safety records in aviation? Where did you get that from, or is that from your own self-appointed expert assessment? The MA60 has only been involved in one major fatal accident and that was due to pilot error. And you'll find that most of the other major incidents can also be attributed to pilot error.

It's ironical that an advanced turbo-prop such as the ATR72-600 is the type that crashes here, but yet you're blaming the MA60 for it. Where's the logic in that? :rolleyes:

Bit of reality needed here.
The aircraft was 6 months old so no major maintenance issues.
I live in Thailand where we are experiencing the aftermath of a major weather system the same system being a contributing factor to this accident in Laos. At times here (and we are several hundred miles from the crash site) the rain has been so heavy that road traffic has been slowed to a crawl because you simply cannot see any distance in front of you.
There is only one question to ask. Was it prudent to continue the approach in such severe weather conditions?

Xeque:

Do you have a copy of the METAR in effect at the time of the accident?

If the rain was as heavy as you allege they probably wouldn't have had the required visual references at MDA or DA.

The weather station at Pakse Airport [VLPS] transmitted only NIL Metars on Oct 16th

The only two IAPs at the airport:

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...psced478d5.jpg

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps1e2d8ee8.jpg

If the impact location on wikipedia is correct, that would indicate something happened halfway through the immediate righthand turn in the missed approach of the VOR DME 15 approach.

Are Laotian pilots perhaps ex military and trained on soviet hardware? If so, spatial disorientation resulting from the attitude indicator working the other way around vs in western airplanes might have been a factor. Crossair 498 comes to mind.

For those who don't know: Soviet era attitude indicators move the airplane symbol, not the background/horizon. So instead of levelling out of a bank, the instinctive reaction would increase the bank, as happened with the Crossair 498 crew (who were Moldavian/Latvian nationals trained on said hardware).

Have a look at the notams

nobody posted NOTAM's, hence haven't seen them. You obviously have, perhaps you'd care to share? PAK VOR U/S?

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

The media already has all the answers, of course. I will warn you that it is a rather egregious case of sensationalism. :ouch:

Coords
 

AFAIK, coords in the Wikipedia article were sourced from The Aviation Herald, so should be reliable. :ok:

David R

Politics at its best, I wouldn't place too much value on what was quoted in the article.

Well, of the 4 statements made:

2 are undisputed facts (Tonga does operate an MA-60; no aircraft gets to carry pax in NZ, or indeed in most countries, unless certificated - which the MA-60 isn't)

1 is arguably true (6 hull losses in less than 5 years)

and 1 is simply a recommendation (albeit a prudent one IMHO)

Experience has shown that Simon Hradecky takes great care not to post incorrect info. Note the criticism from some quarters re the time it took him to post details of the accident at Aviation Herald, and the supporters who back him up in only posting verifiable facts, not speculation. Note also the lack of speculation in the Wikipedia article.

After swh's entry in 'the chocolate fireguard of the year' award, has anyone got the relevant Notams?

Aircraft crashed onto land first, before plunging into the river (see photo of skidmarks)

Bodies recovered in Mekong after Laos plane crash | Aiken Standard

Thanks for that link, Finn. Very useful for updating the Wiki article. :)

Any professional pilot should know how to obtain notams, did not realise we needed to go to this level.

A0020/97 NOTAMN
Q) VLVT/QNMCT/IV/BO /AE/000/999/1512N10545E020
A) VLPS B) 9704030935 C) 9707020935EST
E) NEW PAKSE VOR/DME 115.0/CH97X ON TEST.
CREATED: 06 Nov 2002 05:50:00
SOURCE: VLVTYNYX

PhysicusIf Lao pilots are not ex military where do you think they get their experience?
We are talking about a poor country where only military and a very few handful of elite can learn to fly. Laos has no flying schools or private flight training.If you've ever been to some of the small airports you'll know facilities are basic to say the least. From my conversations with friends in Lao the weather was not good over the last week. Trying to land in a place like that would not have been easy given the circumstances.

I doubt it was anything more than severe weather that caused this accident.
Worth looking back on the Phuket OneTwoGo accident for more info.

Lao Airlines Crash
 

Lao Airlines pilot told to change course before crash

According to news report, the pilot was Cambodian with over 30 years of flying experience and trained in Russian and France.

Probably the wind vane and temp box got blown away in the breeze the day before.

Do you have a reference for that statement? I know of two (due to pilot error on both occasions) but I'm interested to know of the other 4. And whilst you're at it, how many hull losses have there been for the ATR in that period of time, just to compare?

Thanks for taking me to 'that level', swh - to complete your entry can you explain the significance of an 11 year old NOTAM in this accident?

Do we assume there are, in fact, no relevant NOTAMS?