terrorist dry runs?
 

The union for U.S. Airways pilots says there was an incident aboard one of its jetliners last month that could be classified as a “dry run” for a terrorist attack, and that it's not the only one.

WTSP-TV in Tampa, Fla., reports that, according to a US Airline Pilots Association memo, "there have been several cases recently throughout the (airline) industry of what appear to be probes, or dry runs, to test our procedures and reaction to an in-flight threat."

The most recent case happened on U.S. Airways Flight 1880 from Washington, D.C. to Orlando, Fla.

The memo said four men believed to be of Middle Eastern descent caused a commotion on the plane. The memo said one man ran from his seat in coach toward the cockpit door, then entered the bathroom “for a considerable length of time.”

As this was going on, the three other men were moving around in the cabin. They changed seats and were opening overhead bins. The memo suggested that the men were trying to distract the flight attendants.

WTSP spoke to a Wolf Koch, a security committee chairman for the Air Line Pilots Association International, who believes another 9/11-style attack will eventually be attempted.

Both the airline and the Transportation Security Administration confirmed the incident. The TSA reportedly told WTSP that it takes all such reports seriously, but said the matter requires mo further investigation at this time.



Report: Memo warns of terrorist 'dry runs' on planes | KING5.com Seattle

So why were the guys not arrested and interrogated on arrival?

From the article none of three broke any laws or regulations. I didn't see anything about them refusing the orders of a flight crew member.

But, at the least they should have been detained and questioned, under the threat of being placed on the 'no flight' list.

"Tell us what you were up to or why you did what you did or this is the last airline flight you will ever have in the US?" That sort of thing. There very well could have been a completely innocent explanation for their actions.

No! That delight is only dished out by the USCIS to tourists and families going to Disney World!

Delhi belly? :}

On 9/11 at least one airliner when told to return to the gate a half dozen arabs got up and were in the isles when the pilot told them the airspace was closed down and they were returning to the gate. I guess they didn't know how to take off, just how to crash into something.

Seen this before
 

This is interesting. A month or so before 9/11 I worked as a F/A for USAirways, and I'm pretty sure we had a dry run on one of our flights, or at least they were testing security to see if we took it seriously.

I was lead F/A on a trip and our first leg was PIT/MIA, although it was a through flt that had originated in EWR. (I believe two of the 9/11 flights left from EWR and at least some of the terrorists learned to fly in MIA.) Well there was a crew change at PIT - we were to take the PIT/MIA leg, but two middle eastern gentlemen had thru checked bags at EWR, got off at PIT and not reboarded. Thankfully our captain deemed this a security risk and would not take the flight unless they showed up, or all the baggage was unloaded and rescreened.

The ground staff looked further into the missing people and discovered that two of three red flags had been met. (It's twelve years ago now, and I can't remember exactly the criteria but I think they'd paid for them in cash, they were one-way tickets but they'd been bought more than three weeks ago - I think that if they'd been bought more recently then all three would have been raised, but don't quote me on that.)

Anyway this was my second year in the US - before that I'd worked on the ground for BA for twelve years, where we took security extremely seriously! These were the pre 9/11 days in America though, so there was still some discussion amongst the ground staff as to whether we should be taking the flight or not. The captain stood his ground, and the chief pilot came down to the gate to talk to him. I called my manager and explained what was going on, and was told that as long as I could back up my decision with the facts I was telling him that I'd have his backing. Because the captain was still standing his ground the chief pilot asked the flight crew to leave the aircraft and they were to get a new crew. He then asked me if I was also refusing to fly! I responded "I'm not refusing to fly, I'm following the direction of my PIC." The flight attendants were also replaced.

We went back to the crew room where we filled out reports and heard nothing more about the incident, until 9/11.

On my first trip back after 9/11 there were obviously a lot of "people in authority" around offering assistance to F/A's. I told one of them about what had happened, and he asked me to speak to an FBI officer, and relay the story to him.

He said that this was the second time he'd heard of something like this happening - the other time was almost identical, and had involved a flight into Houston, which of course was the other place where some of them learned to fly.

So whats the problem? The cockpit doors are still locked.

People can't even go to the toilet to take a dump without being accused of being terrorists these days. Hardly news worthy of a thread on pprune :ugh:

Really? You don't find their activities suspicious? I do.

It's only a matter of time before they find a way.

I just hope it's not on one of my flights.

You are not wrong, on a LA to Oz flight a few days ago a passenger was ordered by flight attendants to vacate the toilet as he had been in there some time.

The instructions were shouted to him by cabin crew and as a result many passengers became very interested.

The "suspect" passenger was a dodery 90 something year old deaf geezer.

Just curious as this originated from Washington there was a very hi chance of Fams on board...course you may not know that until after the first shot

European inccident
 

I had what I think may have been a dry run on a Gatwick bound flight, the UK police took the whole thing very seriously. I won't go into the details of the inccident for reasons you will no doubt understand.

The police who deal with this sort of thing are extreamly professional.

The coverage of the same story from WTSP in Florida


10 News Investigators find memo warning about terrorist "dry-runs" on airplanes | wtsp.com

One guy goes to the bathroom, others open overhead lockers and move around the cabin and talk to each other.

You guys would be scared of your own shadows.

Well it would seem that none of them tried to access the flight deck, so they wouldn't have known whether or not it was actually locked, which I'd imagine would have been one of their main objectives if it were a "dry run". Since the only other realistic way of bringing the aircraft down would probably have to involve a bomb of some kind, why all the nonsense? This doesn't quite all add up to me.

I'm not saying it wasn't part of some kind of terror prep, but it seems more likely that there is an innocent explanation for their strange behaviour. Perhaps the guy simply needed the toilet in a hurry? Perhaps the others thought it was okay to get out of their seats and whatnot? Let's not jump to conclusions.

Well it is what it is.

Home grown are a threat too but generally they still come from families from that particular region.

Profiling? You bet ya ass.

"Middle Eastern appearance"?

Seems to apply to any dark skinned person in the US these days. :ugh::ugh:

Fear and Paranoia are alive and well I see. :sad:

The sad thing is that they only ever need to do "dry runs" now. So deep is the general paranoia that terrorism can now be carried out ad-infinitum with no need to resort to the inconvenience of real guns and bombs.

But the chances are that a major terrorist event is going to be committed by persons of "Middle Eastern appearance". Without infinite resources you have to play your best odds to avoid another attack.

I am, however, in 2 minds as to whether the terrorist threat is as bad as it is made out to be or if the terror industry are playing it up to line their own pockets.

This PC nonsense is so ridiculous!
Arabs, you mean Arabs!
You can say it, it's not a curse, it's an ethnic identity.

Why are people so scared of using the term? :ugh:

No, how do you know that? they are of middle eastern appearance. The rest is speculation.

Either way up, when you can tell me how to sort out the good ones from the bad, they will all remain "suspicious" to me.

Not my fault :suspect:

Of course they need to profile. It happens everywhere else in life. A 45 year old married mother of three will get a totally different insurance quote for a minivan than a 17 year old single male would for a Corvette. That's life.

You'd be surprised how much common sense profiling takes place. This was post-9/11 and I got pulled at the gate. I ticked ever box, single bloke, 20-29, one way ticket paid in cash. They took one look at me, looked at my ticket, realised I was staff, looked at my UK airport ID and away I went. Sometimes common sense prevails.

The fact that it is deemed not to require further investigation means it could have been an "Official Test of Security".

That occurred to me as well. Tiger team attack.

BBC News - Easyjet plane diverts to Stansted after security alert

No connection with the thread subject.

Well for one you're forgetting the fact that a large number of terrorists in the world today aren't Arab (North Africa and Pakistan are not part of "Arabia")

Paranoia..............
 

Isn't this what Terrorism is all about? Generating extreme paranoia within the other party in "the feud"?

Terrorism is also so unpredictable. Unlike armed forces massing prior to action, where the intent and potential schedule is apparent.

It must seem to lots of folk the technique is having a huge impact by rattling many if someone with an upset stomach and an olive skin is considered a security risk. Or, opening overhead luggage bins, looking for your carry-on baggage..........?

mixeduptransistor
For one it seems that you are not aware that Pakistan is not considered the Middle East and that the natives of North Africa, i.e. Morrocco eastwards to Egypt are all considered Arabs.

It's the nuns with the guitars that scare me...:E

Profiling risky unless large random element
 

My experience immediately post 911 was that the profiling was completely crazy and blatantly racist.

In a queue I was in every non-white in the queue was selected for search, no white was searched. It included a black family who were incredibly loud and american annoying perhaps but given a mum dad and two kids not much of a threat. As I was white I did not get searched myself.

The problem is that if the searches are predictable they lose any value. There are white terrorists of various types. It reminds me of my many trips to Israwl where security was tight including a long if very predictable and fomulaic interview for non-Israeli passport holders and carry on baggage X-rays but perfunctory at best for Israeli passport holders. The inevitable happened and an Israeli passport holder attempted to hijack a plane with a knife. It was noticeable after this they started having security checks for Israeli and non-Israeli passport holders which was a great relieve as I had identified it as a serious security flaw on my first trip.

cbp not uscis. uscis gives out green cards

For the same reason they are scared of someone using the toilet on a plane - they just copy those around them without thinking.

In all seriousness. Should this be discussed on an internet forum?

REALLY ! With all this training, , most of you have still not understood the "profile" of the threat.

A Reminder.... They are likely to be MOSLEM this means they are forbidden to drink alcohol.....
and you're all wondering why they do "dry" runs?....kids today :p

The white terrorists are madder than the regular ones. Heard of the White Widow? Would you spot her in a queue to board your aircraft? I wouldn't...

Worse; they don't even need to do "dry runs".