Dealing with drunk passengers
 

If a report in today's Telegraph is to be believed, the captain of an Easyjet flight from Malta to Mancester, on 26th September, left the cockpit, in flight, to try to calm down a drunken passenger.
I find it hard to believe that any captain would be stupid enough to do this. Even before 9/11, I would not have done so, on the grounds that if I got laid out by a drunk, the F/O would then have been obliged to land the aircraft alone. ( Yes, I know he is trained to do so, but it puts a lot of pressure on him- why put him in that situation without good reason? )
To do so after 9/11 borders on lunacy. Why do people think there is a bullet proof door to the cockpit?
What guidance, if any, do companies currently give on the subject?

Must admit from what I read understood the confrontation with the captain happened on the ground.

Do you really expect an answer to that?

I read is as confrontation on the ground, after landing.

Seemed like a charming punter. Could think of nicer things to see with no kit on... But, there we have it... :D

Report says:-

"Trouble reportedly began mid-flight when the passenger became abusive to fellow passengers and the captain left the cockpit controls to try to calm him down""

Oxenos
 

I have just had a look at the online version of the telegraph report, at no time does it mention the captain leaving the cockpit in flight or any action that boarders on an act of lunacy.

As the others have reported it would seem that the confrontation with the captain happened on the ground after the engines were shut down.

Are you sure that you are not letting the truth get in the way of a good story ?

A & C
The on line report does indeed give a different version. My quote in post # 4 is verbatim from this morning's paper paper.
Can anyone clarify?

The Dork got Tasered brilliant !

It seems , according to this report, that he left the cockpit

VIDEO: Drunk easyJet passenger Tasered by cops after stripping NAKED and demanding to fight captain - Mirror Online

Quite possible the captain left the flight-deck AFTER shutdown. I've had to do that before, to try and defuse the situation while waiting for the police to board.

Should have tasered him while he was having the piss. :E

Justice?
 

"Officers used a "dry" Taser, where the gun is held against a target. Police said he was arrested and got a fixed penalty notice", compared to avoiding a £4 rail fare and fined £300+costs :ugh:

I've spoken with the FO first hand. Apparently when tasered he pissed himself again.

Well that will make him think twice before he does this sort of nonsense again.

The lady he was with, look less than happy with this guys actions and behavior. :p

At times I think that some airline passengers should be should be carried as my passengers were in the past. In handcuffs, waist chains and leg irons. :E

Starting with this guy if he rides on the airlines again.

Railway fare evasion is not dealt with by means of a fixed penalty notice (FPN). It is dealt with under specific Railway Legislation.

Within defined areas a passenger without a ticket can be issued with a Penalty Notice which is additional to the fare to be paid, but not when attempting to travel without paying is involved. This is always Prosecuted. This Penalty Notice is totally different from a FPN in that it is a penalty for not having a ticket and is recoverable at Law as a civil debt. A failure to pay the fare itself is a Criminal act offence.

I notice he was wearing an Oakland Raiders t-shirt - figures - Raiders fans have a reputation as rowdies (the Raiders are an American Football team, not to be confused with the football sport we call soccer).

BTW, for those of us on the west side of the pond, what's a fixed penalty notice

How do you differentiate between the drunk who boards, is polite to the CC, straps himself in and falls asleep for the rest of the flight, and the non-drunk who has been on an extended business trip, is extremely tired, completely sober and does the same? Both have probably missed the safety briefing.........

The rowdy obnoxious drunk needs ejecting - preferably in flight, but sadly, that's not allowed- but is the sleepy, quiet, polite-when-awake one a problem?

You have to base your decision on who to accept based on evidence. So if you board, stay quiet and possibly even ignore the very important safety briefing but make no trouble, you'll almost certainly make it to your intended destination. But have a carrot juice too many and play the idiot you should expect to be left behind.

The problem comes in flight and on the ground whenever passengers are on board. We are responsible for everyone on board and owe them all a duty of care. Therefore we must find a way of silencing, restraining or ejecting trouble makers a quickly as possible. Leaving the flight deck inflight is a bad idea but to leave it on the ground and play target, allowing everyone else to disembark may be a good idea.

But I have a question: Where is plod? I'd be squawking a hollering for the police for the whole time of the descent. So either nobody called them, they couldn't get past "security" or they were slow - which was it?

radeng, As, I'm sure, you know, it's an experience and situational awareness judgement (a gut feelin' call :})
You just hope they can hold their drink; and most people can.
Potbelly baldie was the exception. Hope he's bought her a big bunch of flowers :)

Perhaps Captains should be given taser guns. Now there's a thought!

..soooo you would give Capt. taser gun today, and real gun tomorrow, rifle after tomorrow...right?

of course that Capt. was stupid. Swiss pilots will know about such an incident, where Capt. became immobilized...

to deal with drunk passengers (during flight) there is ONLY one way...GIVE HIM/HER MORE ALCOHOL...till he/she becomes immobilized....all other ways you play with fire

You are the stupid one for believing everything you read in the papers!

I met the off going crew and saw the whole incident, the capt did not leave the FD, but I guess if you read it in the paper, it must be true eh?:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

The reason plod werent called beforehand was that the pax in question was only mildly kicking off in flight which was dealt with very effectively by a fantastic purser. It was only when he got to the top of the stairs did he flip his lid.

But what justice - having been tasered he fell in his own pi$$! :D:D:D

Rail Engineer, many thanks for the legal verbatim, it was only a comparison. If arrested and prosecuted properly as per rail fare evaders then an ASBO could be imposed restricting travel by air for two years.

That was one of the many joys of having a flight engineer. Sending him back with the fire axe in his hand usually brought about a fairly rapid result.

tdracer
 

They call themselves "Raider Nation" down here, and you wouldn't want to be stuck in a stadium seat, with your family, anywhere near them.

[quote=tdracer]BTW, for those of us on the west side of the pond, what's a fixed penalty notice[quote/]

For all intents and purposes, it is an oon the spot fine = only courts can issue fines, which is whhy it is referred to as a fixedpenalty notice. Plus it is a fixed amount. You can refuse to pay it and then you will end up in a magistrates court.

It's an easy way to penalise people, without having to the expense of using a court, for petty offences, a bit like aa speeding ticket.

Sorry, but that does not always work. Some people have such a high tolerance to alcohol that by giving them more, will cause the situation to become worse. By giving people like this more, can cause an 'blackout' episode where the drunk will have no knowledge of their actions to a point where all logical thought and any inhibitions to act like a normal person will be absent.

Most of the time, that is the worse thing you can do.

Now raising the cabin altitude to nine to ten thousand feet can be effective, but by doing that you run two risks, first being that you can harm the other passengers, secondly just as above, just make the drunk passenger drunker.

You also run the risk of making more passengers that have been consuming alcohol uncontrollable drunks.

The only way to really to control such people is to restrict them to their seats anyway you can, call ahead for police to meet the aircraft and not let the passenger in question loose until the police are on board and can take them into custody.

Or, as JW411 posted, send a rather large FE with the fire ax* back into the cabin to handle the situation. :p



* I flew with one FE that would not have needed a fire ax to handle anyone.

Because a fixed penalty notice is just a slap on the wrist for these people, now they want their cake and to eat it. They are now claiming police 'brutality'. Thats what you get for being too soft on them. Next, they're gonna be asking for compensation !

Naked easyJet passenger Tasered at Manchester Airport after was 'victim of police brutality', Robert Scheer's girlfriend claims - Mirror Online

Over 15 years ago I had a Managua-Miami flight in a B727 and an obnoxious drunk kept pinching my Colombian FA's rear ends when they walked by and FAs said the retired military guy across the aisle said the guy said he had a gun in his bag. I went back, asked the military guy if this was the bag and he said yes. I took it and said he would get it back when he left the airplane. He still wasn't cooperating so had the FAs move everybody in the back five rows forward and made him change his seat.

I put him by the window in the back and I said if you cause one more problem I will land at the nearest airport and have you arrested. He laughed so I said do you know what that airport is? Havana, Cuba. If we land there Castro will kill you tomorrow. He quit smiling and I kept making PAs as we approached Cuba of where Havana was and he didn't move. Once in range of MIA called to have security meet us and he was deported the next day. I know threatening somebodies life is not standard procedure, but it worked. Also nobody else heard me. Sometimes you just have to do whatever works.
Now after 9/11 we can't do that.

Hoho..have shared this one before..

Recipe....

1/Increase cruise level to highest achievable.
2/Raise cabin temperature to around 28/30 for around 10-15 mins in
zone containing the inebriated one.
3/ check offending pax KO!
4/ take the floor for quiet applause from rest of pax!

P.s. result not guaranteed, but once worked for me,at 30W.:D:D

There is only one way to deal with people like this...Divert.
As soon as possible and put into somewhere that is going to have rather unpleasant Police and will cost a fortune to get back from.

The German Police and legal system can be pretty harsh, or putting into an island like Sicily can be difficult for the moron.

Any extra costs should be sued for by the airline.
The passengers should be compensated say £100 per person per hour by the offender. (If they go bust then tough).
The airline should put them on a no fly list and all other airlines should be encouraged to do the same.

Air Rage would be a thing of the past PDQ.

However as incidents to get out of hand quite quickly because of a misunderstanding, then an alleged offender can be offered to move to say a row of seats at the rear of the aircraft.
That way he can show he has made an effort to also defuse a situation.

If they refuse and continue being disruptive, then divert time.

Not a F/Eng. but as a S.O./ Nav the Captain asked me to wear his hat and jacket and go back to sort out an obnoxious, but not so drunk, pax. as we were taxying out for take off. After a couple of words with the pax I heard the power being applied as the crew started the take off roll, and asked the pax if he would rather I was back there arguing with him, or up front flying the thing ?

Collapse of stout party.

( of course, I had to quickly take a cabin seat for take off, so was unable to perform my flight deck duty of "monitoring" the Captain and Co-pilot in their take-off duties - big deal ! - that's what the F/Eng was for !! )

The nice part of having a pilot qualified FE meant the captain could handle the situation, not two new hires on probation trying to make it through the first year. They could be fired if the company decided he mishandled it and the captain has union support and won't if he mishandles it.

Now we have no flight engineers so things are different.

Somewhat contrary to the RSA (Responssible Service of Alcohol) principals, which might see the crew in more trouble than the offender in some jurisdictions.

I don't think so, on so many levels!

This is possibly the worst solution. Before they become immobilized they can become violent and uninhibited. There are other ways to solve the problem, such as a sedative in their drink, or a strong and quick acting laxative ....... not pleasant for surrounding passengers but better than some of the alternatives.

Is it legal to be drunk on an aircraft in the EU? Just wondering because if it's not then don't board anyone who is obviously under the influence. I know some will sneak through but it gets rid of a lot of potential trouble makers.

You can not keep giving him more alcohol to fall asleep because if he has an accident driving home the airline could be held responsible. That is how it works for bars.

I've only ever gone down the back to calm down a
drunken MATE who's wife just died in a car prang.
Total strangers no, and post 911 never anywhere in
European or USA airspace. I think that would be a
given.

And if that drunken slob also happens to have some medical condition that reacts badly to the administered drugs, and he croaks it on the flight, then someone is going to be guilty of manslaughter. Bad idea.

I have a good friend who's an eJ captain.

I'll ask him about it; maybe he can shed some light (that isn't confidential).