I shall call your bluff on that one. No interface, no access.

And kindly refrain from the finger wagging please!

IF, no finger wagging. Do carry on. I bet you a quid you have no idea w
hat IF means

A user
 

I fly regularly with SQ and have recently started to use the 'On Air' system. A confusing set-up because in order to use my phone with this system I have to have the phone out of flight mode to access the wifi - presumably all the time the phone is connected to wifi it is also hunting around for a signal, I know this is the case because (rarely) I have had txt messages during flight such as "O2 - Welcome to Kazakstan to receive calls will cost etc etc".

NB I do not - and would not for reasons posted by others - use the phone to make a call, frankly I could do without the hassle, certainly would not want anyone calling me! But using iMessage, Whatsapp etc is quite handy. Muting a phone is easy enough.

Is there any real risk of using these devices on a modern aircraft? Isn't this more about being socially inept rather than causing a hazard.

I would have thought it very simple to place messaging within an older aircraft - or a newer one - that said "this aircraft is/ isn't compatible with mobile phones on mute for messaging purposes only".

As I said before, Android phones can be in Flight Mode (no data/mobile roaming) but the Wifi can be turned on. Go to Flight Mode then turn Wifi on.

Bisflyer. Most mobiles don't differentiate with regards to phone function and wifi. Take it out of flight mode and the phone tries to find a network as well as wifi. While it searches in passive mode, not transmitting, once it finds a decent signal it does a network update, transmits. An old post explaining how it works here http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...tml#post629768

It MAY cause problems, but experience tells me it probably won't. A bit like the ban on phones in garage forecourts, the worries were shown to be unfounded.

Receiving a text message means your phone is operating normally and connected to a network

While not boring you to death, there are a whole host of reasons why radio waves interfere with each other, and with electronic equipment in general. Previous comments about unshielded wiring is not really valid, just speculation, the power levels are too low for it to be a problem.

It comes back to the IF I mentioned, in the case of ACARS and other aviation radios, and GSM/3G they are different so cannot interact accidently - trying to do it on purpose is another issue.

Planes have not been falling out of the sky since mobiles have been around, and countless millions have forgotten to turn them off, so I think it's safe to say there is no big problem coming anytime soon. But I do still turn mine off when told to :)

Androids do! You can be in Flight Mode (disabling mobile phone function) and activate Wifi! There is no need to go out of Flight Mode to get the Wifi working.

Post #11 - which seems to be ignored so far - has the answer to that.

msbbarratt
 

My answer to you is show me a plane that has crashed due to a mobile phone? There isn't one.

You should let readers know about location updates, which happen every few KM. As you are jetting across the world, that is quite often.

But back to point one. It hasn't happened so don't be afraid.

Edited to say, I was trying to educate people about how mobiles work, and the fact they don't really cause any problems.

The other issue of accessing systems is obviously beyond some other commentators.

I have no interest in trying to argue the toss with them. They know best....

i-Phone can go Airplane mode and then switch Wi-Fi on.
My advice - if you see someone with their mob CLEARLY switched on to cellnet, don't bother to take direct action; just inform cabin crew and let them deal with it.

Actually, the maximum permitted transmitter power varies by both technology generation and frequency band. There is also some variation in the radio regulations of various countries, but the cellular standards attempt to define power levels by frequency band such that the resulting handsets can be used world-wide. The vast majority of cellular handsets (as opposed to vehicle-mounted cellular transmitters and fixed cellular devices such as burglar alarm transmitters, etc.) operate at maximum transmit power levels of 0.5 Watts or less. In the USA, the FCC rules limit hand-held radiotelephone devices to a maximum of 0.6 Watts EIRP.

The GSM (2G) standard does include a "power class 1" where the device is permitted to transmit at up to 2 Watts peak power. However, handsets are "power class 2" devices with a maximum transmit power of 0.5 Watts. UMTS (3G) handsets are "power class 3" devices with a maximum transmit power of 0.25 Watts . LTE (4G) handsets are also "power class 3" devices, but with max transmitter power specified as 0.20 Watts. There is also a "power class 4" (at least in some frequency bands) at 50% of the levels for power class 3, but I am not sure anybody is making class 4 devices. In 4G, the LTE specs provide for a power class 4, but as of LTE release 11 (February, 2013) only class 3 is defined (except for frequency band 14 -- uplink frequency 788MHz -- where power class 1 is also defined, but not used in handsets).

I designed controller chips for use in cellular handsets until 2010, and still consult in that field, so I have the relevant standards documents on my computer.

We've had this discussion (although less technically informed) more often than I care to remember in the Pax/SLF forum on PPRuNe.

Depressingly, the historical position has been that for some passengers, there is no acceptable authority that can prevent the continued use of electronics on-board: They simply regard the imposition as affecting others, but not themselves. There is nothing (except possibly a published accident report with the confirmed single issue cause of passenger use of electronics during a critical flight phase) that will be viewed as sufficient grounds to restrict use and those whose job it is to police compliance can therefore be treated with contempt and discourtesy, at best.

I mention this, because at least one of the same user names have turned up here, and the end result may prove to be the same, although it would be nice if it didn't.

Though not usually starting with a first post that, despite its title, had absolutely nothing to do with "using mobiles on planes". :ugh:

Who wants to sit next to someone gibbering on a mobile? Mandatory jail term pls.

I'm a firm believer in not allowing mobile use on planes. I've said as much before.

The reason some think it 'doesn't apply to them' comes from scare mongering that is is dangerous. In my humble opinion it isn't - no plane crashes or accidents linked to phone use is evidence enough of that. Us techie dullards can argue the toss forever, as we do on lots of things ;)

At the end of the day I really don't want everyone shouting into an iphone during the few hours a week of peace I get :)

I sit in the back, and use mine to fly the airplane.

Flying loco into an airfield in mountainous terrain outside cas. Pax adjacent starts playing with blackberry. Ask him to stop and explain why - turned belligerent. Five minutes later we landed and he threatened cabin crew. Flight deck member said discouraged from reporting by company. Reported to relevant authority whose ops inspector accused me of having an axe to grind against loco.
Authority IMHO absolute waste of space - and not just with this loco.

I believe that there are gadgets available to mute phones from a distance ? Be nice to have a low power one to use on ones' seat neighbours when they flout this convention, but I guess it would also mute the aircraft navigation electronics !!! and in any case, it would be regarded as a remote bomb detonator by our ever zealous TSA and their world-wide clones.

Good idea, tho'.

Exsp,

Yes, they used to be legal. It was the cell blockers that were used in museums, symphony halls, movie theaters, and other public places. ACLU took it to court as violation of free speech, and won.

There really is no point. Mobiles will kill you. Jammers will make it better :ugh: Aviation tech cannot be accessed by outsiders. Android or otherwise. I often wonder how some remember to breath.