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-   -   Air Bagan Fokker F100 crash in Myanmar city - Burma (Photos included) (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/503661-air-bagan-fokker-f100-crash-myanmar-city-burma-photos-included.html)

DIBO 25th Dec 2012 22:08

Indeed, no doubt about it: F100's got TR's

So something happened to the RH TR (probably post impact?)

acmech1954 25th Dec 2012 22:31

Thrust reversers on every F100 and 70 I have worked on, KLMuk and Cityhopper, and a few others.

mini 26th Dec 2012 01:56

Apart from the sanctions etc, how difficult is it to keep a Fokker working these days? are parts readily available?

Capn Bloggs 26th Dec 2012 02:16


how difficult is it to keep a Fokker working these days? are parts readily available?
Apparently. There are dozens of the things flying around Oz at the moment. Fokkers in my 12, Fokkers in my 6. Fokkers, Fokkers everywhere!

Airbubba 26th Dec 2012 03:18


Think you got that wrong Airbubba.
Really? :E

NARVAL 26th Dec 2012 06:30

I flew the palne for a few years, and of course there are thrust reversers. A very nice plane, mixing very advanced avionics (at the time) and very simple systems (you can still fly it with all hydraulics lost). For the reverse, there is a cable going to the thrust lever: if the reverse accidentally "deploys" in the air, it pulls the cable, and the cable pulls back the thrust lever to idle...Simple and effective! The autoland was extremely good (we tried it just to see in very gusty conditions and it landed the aircraft like a dream!) but ADF approaches...I guess it is a matter of stopping at minimum altitude...and flying no further...

Tu.114 26th Dec 2012 07:22

In addition to Narvals technical description: we used to practise an inadvertent reverser deployment inflight on occasion in the simulator. While it shook the aircraft quite well until the engine was shut down (if I remember correctly, this was one of the few engine failures where the aircraft would not indicate the affected engine by lighting up the fuel lever; identifying the side was done by looking for the retarded power lever and the little R on the engine display), it was still flyable without noticeable loss of altitude. An open TR is not an instant accident in this aircraft at all.

The Ancient Geek 26th Dec 2012 08:37

When Fokker went titzup someone bought out the company, renamed it Rekkof, and continued on a spares&service basis. So you still get full factory support but they no longer build new aircraft.

Lovely little aircraft, easy to fly and tough as old boots. The only downside is the outdated and thus somewhat thirsty engines. KLM replaced their last one about a year ago.

acmech1954 26th Dec 2012 10:32

Only the 100s gone, still operating the 70s

BALLSOUT 26th Dec 2012 10:55

Craking little airplane to fly, Airbus avionics and simple controls. Still lots of them flying, all with thrust reversers.
They are also now available as biz jets with a full re fit and range extended.
The mod to the thrust reverser system that automatically closes the corresponding thrust lever on inadvertant airborne deployment, was brought in after an accident in Brazil, when one deployed on take off and they took out a tower block.

PAXboy 26th Dec 2012 12:40

Would be interesting to know the elapsed time from impact to all the photos being take. The 'fog' appears to have cleared by 100%. Sky News report the fire crews on hand quickly, due to proximity of airfield, also mentioned that USA had given an advisory notice about the carrier in previous months - no details of what and when.

Tu.114 26th Dec 2012 13:51

What about the investigation - does Burma have the capabilities to investigate this accident itself, does it relegate this job to any other countries authority or will this accident go uninvestigated?

hetfield 26th Dec 2012 14:03

NDB Approach, fog....

Several accidents come into my mind.....

safelife 26th Dec 2012 14:15

Tu.114: local media reports flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder have been located and will be sent to Singapore for read out.
So that might reveal what happened, apart from what the pilots will tell us.

safelife 26th Dec 2012 14:18

US intelligence towards Air Bagan, interesting statements towards maintenance, pilot training and CAA supervision:

https://dazzlepod.com/cable/08RANGOON167/

Tu.114 26th Dec 2012 14:27

Safelife,

thank You for the information. Especially paragraph 5 of the report You linked is interesting reading and makes me wonder how serious Burmese authorities will be about investigating this accident. If what is alleged in there is true and the supervising authority was under orders to turn at least one blind eye to this company, it would likely be good to have at least a part of the investigation done outside of the country.

asc12 26th Dec 2012 16:15

The first report did say "landed on a road." I wonder if they mistook highway lights for the runway.

Herod 26th Dec 2012 16:15

I spent seven years flying the F100. It certainly does have reversers. The confusion could come from it's official designation, which is F28-100. The original F28 (Speys, not Tays) did not have reversers.

matkat 26th Dec 2012 16:25

Oceancrosser, having worked as a licensed engineer on F100/70s for many years I can assure that thrust reversers are indeed installed on these aircraft.
Totally agree with Herod, think you are getting confused with the F28.

7478ti 26th Dec 2012 17:42

How many more of these until RNP?
 
If it turns out to be related to fog, misidentified road as a runway, or hitting powerlines with an otherwise good jet, it will just be one more tragic unnecessary "low visibility landing" accident that didn't need to happen. These kinds of accidents are entirely preventable using a decent FMS with RNP (at trivially low procedure development cost globally), or even better yet with GBAS/GLS (at far less cost compared to any ILS). How many more of these kinds of unnecessary accidents do we need to have globally, before we recognize that "non-precision approaches" are unnecessary, obsolete dinosaurs, that have no place in modern jet transport aviation?


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