DeltaConnection carriers file a petition for one list
 

Today, ASA and Comair (the number 2 and 3 largest regional airlines) who are both wholly owned subsidiaries of DAL, Inc. filed a petition for one seniority list with DALPA.
At this time DeltaConnection operates 135 CRJ's, 46 E-120's and 12 ATR-72's. Fleet plans are for 416 CRJ's be 2010 (44, 50, 70, 90+ seats).

ASA&Comair have 2500+ pilots and are hiring 60/month indef. DAL has 9600 pilots, DAL is hiring 75/month indef.

This should be interesting to see.

Good luck to the regional folks in their efforts to merge the lists. Interesting times ahead indeed!.

Interesting indeed......... They want date of hire. I.E. sumthin for nuthin. Hmmm. the 50+ seaters are not even being built yet.

Just a reminder to everyone holding a career position better than someone elses. You are surrounded by assasins who will go to great extremes (including a court room) to get what you have, deserving, or not. Leap frogging to a seat or seniority position that they somehow have been unable to secure on their own. They stand nothing to lose, and everything to gain by employing such tactics.............. Pretty cool huh?

Hmmm, sounds like you are very bitter about something that your airline pilot group allowed to happen in your past. Nobody is looking for a handout or a free ride here.

ASA/Comair have been flying aircraft with way more than 50 seats for a very long time now. They both had firm orders for the 70 seat RJ before Delta mainline bought them out. Delta's scope clause limits their subsidiaries equipment to less than 70 seats and are trying to take their 70 seaters away from them before they get them, thus limiting their careers.

The move for a merger does not imply that they are greedy or are looking for a date of hire merger or anything else for that matter.
It simply sets the ball rolling for talks. The Delta mainline MEC will not give the regional pilots one more red cent than they deserve. Also it will have to benefit all parties involved or it's doubtful that it will happen. So your comment regarding "Leapfrogging assasins" is undefined and undeserved.

Delta management have been pitting all 3 companies against each other and are starting to get the hang of it. This "whipsawing" must stop. This integration of the lists, however it will be agreed upon will benefit all pilot groups involved. They will come out of this with as one big unified voice and one hell of an airline.

For more info see onealpa.com

Regards,

CALPA tried to shove one of these "farm club" deals down Air Canada's throat a couple of years ago, the AC pilots left CALPA and went inhouse to form ACPA. Don't think it will work at Delta...

It's been tried before at American, and Continental has some sort of flow through agreement with Continental Express.

Ironically, some of the Delta mainline pilots got their seniority through their date of hire at Ransome, a commuter that Pan Am bought before it went out of business. ALPA put the Ransome pilots on the Pan Am seniority list before the shutdown, put them on the A-scale and fenced them out of the F/E seat ahead of pilots hired by Pan Am.

CRJ200, fine. Keep your 70 seaters. Keep your pay-rates. Keep your retirement. Keep your work rules. What do you need delta for? Enlighten me. I'm not bitter here a all. I've read on other forums where all the ASA/Comair guys want to "restore" the profession. So,...Do It. Leave DALPA out of it. You're the ones who didn't go on strike, lets hope TSA has the balls to do it. I don't work for Delta so I'm not up to speed on all the details, so sorry about that. Don't like the pay rates? STRIKE!

Being stapled onto the DAL seniority list would be a win/win for all parties. I doubt whether any other form of integration would be entertained by DALPA. One list is a good idea, but first it needs to be feasable.

Not to mention, I don't want to go through my entire career at DAL as "the ASA guy who stole my seniorty"

>>Not to mention, I don't want to go through my entire career at DAL as "the ASA guy who stole my seniorty"<<

What career at DAL? Many of the pilots at the commuters don't meet Delta's (lowered) standards (e.g. college, Baptist, no Corvette <g> ), would Delta have to take every commuter pilot that walked through the door under your imaginary plan? Somehow I don't think that's going to happen.

Apply, interview and come in through the front door...

That is exactly what I am doing, if you look at my post again, you will note that I don't enjoy the idea of going in the back door, especially at a DAL pilot's expense. I would be satisfied with a staple job, which would benefit all parties.

As for not meeting the lowered standards, those are a sliding scale, and have more to do with "who you know" that "what you know." I know this since I have 3 senior Captain writing me a letter just so I can meet those standards, which misteriously move from year to year.

That last thing I want to keep hearing about is how crummy our pilots are....we've yet to kill anyone in more than 22 years due to a pilot error. Even DAL, UAL, AMR, et al can't say that.

And don't tell me they're bigger, we fly many more legs a day!

The vast majority of regional airline pilots in the U.S do have the required credentials for the majors. However getting that elusive interview unless you are from a special interest, affermative action group or connected through your chums at the fighter wing, seems to be a lottery without rhyme or reason. Having said that if AMR, UAL or DAL could get away with paying $50/hour to fly the 777, they would and in a hearbeat too. The first major that makes a realistic, equitable and workable agreement to ensure career progression for its subsidiary regional aircrew will benefit greatly for at least two reasons. Like it or not the regionals are expanding at a greater rate than the big boys, the RJ`s are creating markets that did not exist a few short years ago. Crewing these aircraft is already becoming a problem, the first regional that offers a clear career path will be more attractive to the dwindling suitably qualified pilot supply, thus ensuring their expansion at the expense of the competition. Secondly despite what we may like to believe, airlines are run by the marketing departments. If there is an agreement in place that satisfies the 777 captain down to the TP f/o, then the deployment of the regional fleet can be done without the current act of congress, so to speak and the need to comply with various scope clauses. This would again give a great advantage over the competition. Having said all that appropriate safeguards need to be in place so that when one does progress to that "job at the major," it is still worth having!.

>>That is exactly what I am doing, if you look at my post again, you will note that I don't enjoy the idea of going in the back door, especially at a DAL pilot's expense. I would be satisfied with a staple job, which would benefit all parties.<<

You are asking DAL to hire you without the interview, physical and the rest of the dog and pony show required of the thousands of other applicants. Your imaginary "staple job" would give away the seniority of thousands of Delta pilots hired legitimately in the future. Delta has learned bitter lessons about the "I got mine, pull the ladder up, it doesn't affect me" attitude from the B-scale and the furlough. Once your staple job is done, your or your colleagues will sue to get your commuter date of hire at DAL, it's been done before, regular as clockwork.


>>As for not meeting the lowered standards, those are a sliding scale, and have more to do with "who you know" that "what you know." I know this since I have 3 senior Captain writing me a letter just so I can meet those standards, which misteriously move from year to year.<<

If you're so sure you meet the standards, get an interview, get hired and staple yourself to the bottom of the DAL list like everyone else instead of demanding a handout...

Flt idle, you wrote: "Crewing these aircraft is already becoming a problem". Sounds like an opportunity to me. Its called leverage. Restore the profession. Strike. Focus on what can be done by yourselves, instead of threatening others.

" A wise man will make more opportunity than he finds "

Damn flood gates......

How would you justify the windfall for the others near the bottom of the seniority lists at comair and asa? A Delta seniority number with 1000 hrs TT? Delta is hiring 75-80 pilots a month. In less than 3 years virtually every Comair/asa dude could be there, right?

AirBubba,

You appear confused. I never said I wasn't going to, nor able to get hired the old fashioned way. I am saying that when I do, I still plan to make sure that DAL flies all DAL passengers on DAL airplanes with DAL pilots.

As it is now, ASA and Comair are flying DAL passengers on DAL planes with non-DAL pilots(at 1/3 the pay). Anyone with an education can tell you that over the long term this will have the effect of eroding this profession and reducing it to the LCD (Lease Common Denominator).

Over time DAL management (and congress) will erode scope language and soon all or most of the domestic (ASA/Comair fly to Mexico and Canada already) flying may happen under a different seniority list than that of DALPA. All we need is a slow down in the economy and they will approach DALPA with a concession, for moving some MD-88's or 737 to ASA and Comair, in return for some unsaid promise. Or worse yet, scope will be struck down in the courts and we'll see 777's with ASA on the tail at $130/hr. You say never, well management is patient.

You need to get off your high horse, put your ego aside, and look at the big picture.

This nonsense about how hard it was getting the job is silly. I was hired at ASA with 1100 TT/ 300 Multi. Today they are hiring 300TT 50 Multi time from ERAU.... At DAL the medial changes from time to time. I have 20/15 vision, yet I know of several pilots with less TT than my meager 2500 who were hired at DAL with less than 20/20? I know of pilots hired at DAL with little or no PIC time, so much for selective(ness) & so much for the medical?

In the 60's UAL hired pilots off the street, in the 70's many airlines were hiring 1200hr pilots into 727's. UAL has hired women with less than 500 hrs who are now widebody captains.

As for DAL. Like I said before, is who you know and not what you know....as exemplified by my own situation with my friends at DAL writing me letter of rec, with out them my same self would somehow be "unqualified."

Look past your nose, and look at the next 30 years. Because I have more than 30 years in front of me in this profession and I don't wanted it eroded to the LCD.

ONE AIRLINE / ONE LIST.

PS Who do you fly for? Just curious. You know I'm ASA.

[This message has been edited by DeltaConnector (edited 20 July 2000).]

Scope prevents anything with more that 70 seats being flown by others not on the DAL seniority list. If you show up for a gun fight, at least have a gun. Now are you saying management/congress will impose their will and circumvent the collective bargaining process, thus negating the railway labor act and along the way dropping md-80's and 777's in your lap? At 130$/hr.? Hmmmm. Scabs do work for less. Are you saying this is the future? Sure sounds like it. Why haven't you guys taken a stand and withheld you services? You wouldn't need to be threatening to DAL boys.

Looking past my nose now, with hiring at most majors exceeding 75/month, it doesn't matter who you do or do not know,... be patient. Instead of predicting 130$/777 captain jobs. The ME generation in you is screaming loud and clear.

This thing has already happened at SAS! Unbelievably, it was the mainline union that negotiated it, and made it retroactive, thus backstabbing everyone of their own recent newhires.

Just so were clear here. I don't advocate $130/hr 777 jobs for a regional airline, and for that matter, no one at my company does. But as long as there are seperate pilot lists competing for jobs, the chance of it happening isn't impossible. The issue of Scope, is one which I believe will eventually be struck down in congress, as more and more pressure from the smaller regional airport/city authorities gain congressional clout.

I just want to keep all jobs at DAL, and completely remove the existance of ASA and Comair from the map. These companies are just shells for management to make extra margins on a given investment.

Delta Connector:

Your position seems a bit muddled....
One BIG factor that may throw a wrench into management's plans to undermine mainline contracts with RJ's is a lack of airspace. Think it isn't a problem? Go visit your nearest ARTCC on a wx-cluttered day; they will show you that the RJ's are now causing delays to 777s et al, by occupying airspace previously unused by commuters.
30 pax going 200 miles delay and take a slot for 300 pax going 6000 miles. It makes no sense...
That same RJ, delayed on a gate, delivers 30 pax to spend money in the Terminal franchises; the same gate could deliver 300 spenders.....
The pilot unions, the ATC union, and the airport operators need to get together to stop this nonsense, and ensure that growth continues at the majors, thus providing you, Deltaconnector, with your hard-worked for big-jet career.
Yes, I know that airline managers say a lot of major growth is fuelled by RJ feed.....
I take it with a pinch of salt. Their big prize is destroying our contracts, and they would be prepared to subsidize RJ's at low altitude to achieve that , if necessary.
The RJ's are ONLY profitable because of lower pay scales.....

(I think you meant 'least'). Hmmmm. DALPA has recognized it as an erosion to the profession, Yet, who is willingly doing the flying for 1/3 the $$$$?????? DALPA IS trying to restore the profession.

So merge together AKA AA Eagle, and vote with your feet. Restore the profession. Make your job a 100K plus job. The time has never been better. Pilot demand is out-stripping supply at the regionals LEVERAGE. This really is so simple. Funny, you guys can't manage a strike, yet are willing to burn the whole industry down with this bullsh*t.??