BA Flight LHR - GLA Returned due to both pilots becoming lightheaded and dizzy
 

I was on the LHR to GLA flight yesterday BA1486 an A321 (20th Dec), departed LHR at 4 pm ish got airborne, at approx 20 mins into flight a very abrupt and panicked message came over the PA from the pilot " senior flight attendant to the flightdeck", at this point there were defined worried faces across all off attendants, next thing was an o2 cylinder and mask taken forward and we were heading back to LHR at great speed. No announcement for a long time then the expected technical problem line was posted to all. We landed no problem but were met by a full fire service turn out, including local authority fire service and engineers etc etc.
Still being fed the tech fault line but the first on board were paramedics.?? It later transpires that both pilots became lightheaded/dizzy/unwell at the same time, in my book thats serious ....right, anybody care to shed any light on this one

A problem which releases fumes into the cabin IS a tech fault - no lie there.

The fire service turnout is standard for any urgent return - they spend all day at the airport, and the practise is good training under real conditions.

The O2 cylinder and mask is also a standard first aid response, and the cabin crew training would have prompted it - although it probably wasn't used as the pilot masks can provide fume protection and 100% O2, which a cylinder cannot.

As the flight concluded safely, then it shows the pilots acted in good time to make a safe return before either of them were affected to an extent which would have jeopardised the aircraft - that sounds like a good result to me.

Will be interesting to see what the AAIB make of it, if a report is made. If both felt nauseous it would perhaps point to a fumes/bleed air issue, a la BAe 146, perhaps?

Well that's good news but it was tech enough to not keep going to Glasgow and to have us met by the entire crew of Londond Burning, then treat the Tech problem with Paramedics, 1 pilot going tech is pants but 2 at the same time simply makes my bum hole pucker. Would be nice to get feedback of some sort. I fly all over the world so its inevitable I will encounter some pipes and drums but facts are always reassuring (I hope)

Batboy, please elaborate on "very abrupt and panicked message" - especially your definition of "panicked".

"senior flight attendant to the flightdeck" seems a fairly normal message to me.

Perhaps to flyers it seems normal, especially in the sim! But for SLF who may only hear that phrase once in their lives, it could well seem abrupt.

Groundloop, it was just that, a panocked and urgent message, there was no courtesy with it it was a definite message of concern, she wasn't after a cup of tea, she didn't use the internal comms system she went straight on to PA and passed the message that was not a standard request for all to hear. She has a problem at the sharp end, this became apparent as written above.

Please let me clarify, this is not a dig at the pilot, she was brilliant and did a wonderful job, one she got her sh*t together she did everything you could ask for

The standard BA Alert Call, i.e. the call the pilots make to alert the crew that there is an issue that may modify onboard service and require (possibly) some cabin crew action is "Will the Senior Cabin Crew Member report to the Flight Deck immediately." This is not a panicked call but a well practised one made in the sim numerous times by all pilots. The immediate response from CC is for the SCCM and nearest other crew member to go into the FD, often they will take a portable O2 with them in case it is an incapacitation issue. Seems like everyone did as they were trained to do and no great drama unfolded.. A potentially difficult situation well dealt with by all crew :D

Forgive me for venturing into a pros forum, and if this is a silly question im sorry, but why would the flight crew request the cabin crew to bring a oxygen cylinder to them when they have a supply themselves on the flight deck?

Was answered on post #12, + , it is easier to attach a mask standing in the entry of the cockpit using a handheld bottle, than faffing around with a "quick donning" :rolleyes: mask stowed in most aircraft on the outboard of the pilot, often a bit buried, which will then require you to check whether it is on EMERG/100% or whatever.

Thank you, i should have paid more attention to the thread.

From my medical background sounds like one of the crew may have become unwell, supplying O2 is the first line of response in a first aid situation, the re breath bag with the o2 cylinder is more beneficial to the 'patient' then the drop down o2 masks in the deck as these require the person to be spontaneously breathing

If the aircraft is back in service today seems like can't be much wrong with it and with the paras first on board it seems to back up my theory

If I'd heard that PA message as a passenger, I'd have been curious but not a bit alarmed. If the flight had thereafter continued routinely, I'd probably have forgotten all about it by the time we landed. But a nervous passenger can link the routine call to a turnback and suddenly it becomes "a panicked PA call." The exaggeration is unfortunate but understandable, in the circumstances.

I do wonder, though, how on earth he knew they were "heading back to LHR at great speed." Carrying his own pitot/static system?

I may be wrong but surely the flight deck can communicate with the SFA by intercom without broadcasting it to the entire aircraft? (Unless all the FAs are occupied eslewhere)

Use of the PA alerts all the cabin crew to a potential problem - and the senior member may well be out with the trolley

Have I missed something here?

Batboy 1970 states with some confidence that:

"It later transpires that both pilots became lightheaded/dizzy/unwell".

Who told you that? Someone from BA?

Step wilk, I knew we were returning because the vdu screens were down, so the turn around was easy as we started drawing circles on the screen, the speed is also displayed on this screen and the numbers went up considerably so I didn't need any telemetery just basic maths did the trick, plus it took us 20 mins to get where we were and approx 15 to return .....

JW it was a member of the crew who confirmed this

Who cares if it was a "panicked" call from the pointy end. The correct choices were made and it all worked out.

I'll admit my voice has raised a couple of octaves initially during the few emergencies I've had, but the facts were that I knew what the hell I was doing and the decisions made were based on the safest and the most conservative choices made at the time with all the available information.

It was a non-event if you look at the whole picture, anything else is fodder for the tabloids.

Aaaggghhhhh - the internet is great, until it's used for this sort of melodramatic hype, which is then reported in 'the press' as fact. The only facts that the OP knows is that the alert call was made - and I'd bet a month's wages that it did not use the words he quotes, thereby calling into question his recollection of even the basic facts - and that the aircraft returned to LHR. The rest is supposition and hypothesis. Return flt was quicker - about 65 kts out of the north at the moment, so might that explain it?

Tell your mates, but please don't spread ill-informed rumour and speculation, there's a good chap.

:ugh:

Just the facts?
 

Is it me, or was the OP only looking to try to look for reasons why his flight returned? He isn't owed an explanation, but if he has half a brain he will check AAIB bulletins over the coming months, if the event merits one.

Condescending responses like "There's a good chap" only reinforce those who aspire to, or aim to be, "old school".

Bet you wouldn't diss him if he brought a missing cowling or wing panel to your attention though.

bbd, "this is the captain/FO would the senior cabin crew member report to the flight deck immediately"

Close enough for me, I'll take a cheque:E

Similar to Juan's reply - our (JAA operator) standard call in an urgent situation such as this is "Purser report to cockpit" and has to be done on the PA in case cabin crew are busy in the cabin pressing the normal 2 chime bells means they first finish what they are doing (serving meals/selling sandwiches) and only then come up & call you back - wasting precious time in an urgent situation.

What urgency call does your company have brit bus driver?

My point is that if the OP cannot quote the alert call correctly - and I am certain that BA doesn't use 'flight attendant' - what credence can be given to the rest of his insights. As I said, this forum is frequently pillaged by the press so why feed the trolls with ill-informed speculation about incapacitated pilots?

Sorry Lord Spandex, we don't use the phrase 'this is the captain (or FO)' in those circumstances, so the cheque will be used to pay the builders instead.

Piton, your question has been answered in this thread.

The comment about the rebreathing bag on portable O2 cylinder is utter rubbish by the way. The bag is there to accommodate the peak inspiratory flow rate during spontaneous respiration. If a patient is not spontaneously breathing then resuscitation is required. Fortunately cabin crew are well trained and know this. :ugh:

dizzy/nauseous.....wtf??
 

The guys probably saw what the crew meal was....then developed those symptoms??:yuk::bored::eek:

Coded message given, crew reacted well, aircraft landed safely. Wait until the report comes out. Perfectly executed plan end of.

By report I assume you mean AAIB? If every airborne return resulted in the AAIB report, then they would be a somewhat larger outfit than they are ;)

The company / CAA / AAIB reporting system (e.g. MOR) is well defined - whether the AAIB was even required to be informed I would guess is unlikely, the chance of a report from them somewhat less. IMHO ;)

NoD

Folks many many thanks for the genuinely helpful posts its appreciated and re emphasises what this forum is about. With regards to the pretencious and somewhat rude and totally unhelpful comments thanks to you too, it made me chuckle/cringe somewhat, but hell a good read anyway

stepwilk

Wouldn't be caught dead on a flight without mine.

---

Batboy

Batboy: I think very many of the public would recognise the precautionary actions for what they are. All that airport security for instance, doesn't mean there's a bomb on your plane. Not sure where you're coming from with this skepticism over the technical fault. If there were fumes in the cockpit that's a technical fault, shurly.

Imalyon, forgive me, but I have never heard of drop down masks on the flight deck. You want 100% pure O2 on the flight deck if necessary, not the rubbish that comes out of the drop down masks in the cabin. That's why the flight deck is equipped with smoke mask, goggles etc so they can operate better under major problems.

:yuk:
 

:E

or this was an enlightened method of getting the christmas leave that was cancelled!

:=

Was the window shut..............?

Should have been.

"Windows/Doors................Closed/Locked" is on all of the Airbus cx-lists I've ever used :uhoh:

(unless it failed airbourne)

Fargoo, thanks very much for the update. So as I first thought, not the open and shut case that everybody who wasn't there predicted. Many Thanks

Crew Lightheaded
 

For all of you dismissing the OP on this one ... shame on you.

More info here:

Incident: British Airways A321 near London on Dec 20th 2011, both flight crew nearly passed out

A question for batboy1970 from another SLF...

That Aviation Herald article reports that the passenger oxygen automatically deployed. Did that actually happen? If so, my uneducated guess would be that it's a pretty significant detail.

The OP would have mentioned that ! Very doubtful on the masks deploying.

Oh well, there ya go. I set out to ask a genuine question about something I was involved in and now have thge answer, I'm not a big PPRUNE user and its little wonder. The question that springs to mind now is, when the CAA and involved crew actually make statements as per the link, is it a general rule that you will now attempt to belittle them and question there integrity, with statements like stick to the facts "there's a good chap".....

So in a nutshell sometimes YOU don't have a clue who are posting these comments and what knowledge and expierience they have, however as an OP we clearly have a good idea of one or two who are responding.

Poor show to some of you, I hope you read the quotations and firmly felt like the fools you now look.

Again to the positive responders thank you very much indeed, your probably enjoying a good quality of air with your heads NOT being up your own ar*es

Do BA do packs or bleeds off/On apu take-offs?