TURKISH A340 SKID OF RWY AT VABB
 

This morning a Turkish Airlines A340 skidded of RWY 27 trying to vacate on TWY N8.
Everyone is safe no injuries.

Bit of a shock.
 

Surprising. The runway and taxiway conditions at Bombay are of the highest standard, as indeed are the skills of my colleagues from the land of Kemel. Such things do happen. Let us wait for the official report, assuming one is duly issued by the objective and unbiased local authorities.

Hudd, Do you honestly think we are "going to wait for the offical report"

This is a disscussion board. Get with it man !

Cochin , Mumbai , and..............?
No doubt the tower 'ordered' Turkish to vacate at N8 , they normally do this after you have configured for your landing , no time to increase flap or autobrake settings .
Tis the season to be skiddy , take care in the monsoon chaps . Don't try the impossible .

If so, I wonder if there is a word in Turkish for 'Unable' (or 'Standby' and then 'Say again' as you pass NB:O)?

I think Roy was being sarcastic / ironic.

I hope Roy was being sarcastic................

The A340 has come to rest between N7 and N8.The nose gear of the A340 is about 20 feet into the grass and looks like there is no damage to the engines.
The lighting is there for both N7 and N8 showing them as HST.Mumbai has been experiencing heavy showers with visibility dropping to about 700RVR with heavy showers.
Only Runway 14 was in use(Minima 1.4) and visibility being reported as 1100 with RVR of 1600M.Medium to poor braking was also reported for this runway and led to a few diversions including Speedbird 199 to VOHS.

Here is a video of the stranded aircraft

Apologies for the size and quality:O

Heres the shot of "Izmir", operating as TK-720 from IST, that veered off the Runway after landing on VABB/BOM's Primary Rwy 27

http://images3.jetphotos.net/img/3/4...4977734_tb.jpg

The location of the Aircraft Recovery Kit that was shipped by AI to COK is not known. Till I was there, they were using L&T Earth Movers / Excavators to excavate nearby ground (wheel tracks), and lay down the Metal planks/plates to bring the Aircraft back on the Rwy.

UPDATE: Heavy Rains ON for the past half an hour or so. I hope the rescue ops don't get delayed, as 14-32 is already thought to be challenging by many folks here, and an AIX captain friend of mine. And its short! :(

Is it grooved & how long afore the landing was a friction test done ????

Friction test in India!?!?!?:} HAHAHAH... damn gotta wipe the coffee of my keyboard:{.

@captjns: Dear captain, GVK - CSIA, the operators of BOM Airport, had acquired the Saab Friction Test Vehicle about 2 years back. Things are not the same as when AAI used to handle the Airport.

captjns....and I wasted a good dry martini trying to wipe the tears off my eyes.

The fact remains that considering the amount and type of traffic and ATC, BOM is still one of the most challenging (read: dangerous) airports around. Only if you operate there on daily basis you get num to that fact.

To make the challenge even more interesting, BOM has devised minimum runway occupancy time procedures, requesting widebodys to exit at RET N8.
AIP declared distance from displaced THR RWY 27 : 2.052 m.

Regularly, when we land our widebody on 27, ATC will order us during rollout to exit via N7 (1.574m).

Then add a little - or a lot of - rain, the usual unreported tailwind and the common fuel-saving reduced landing flaps, and you will be in the soup.

If at any place in the world, BOM is where you have to exercise your captaincy. Forget fuel saving, forget the wx report, forget ATC and MROTP, forget soft landings and idle reverse; just stay on the tarmac and give the pax, what they paid for - a flight where they exit via the aerobridge and not via the slides.

Roy: I like your dark sense of humour....
VT-RST: Good to hear that they have a SAAB, then nothing can go wrong now, right? (When do they start revealing the results, you think?)

You all stay safe you there..

T.

I hate it when we have to increase the a/b setting. That involves so much effort sometimes I think it's safer to go-around, rebrief the landing, and then start the approach all over again.

In my 36 years, I've never taken extraordinary means to vacate a runway to accomodate a following aircraft in rainy low visibility conditions. The safety of my operation comes before anything else. By the way... isn't that why god invented TCAS to govern distance for following aircraft.

I politely have the FO tell ATC to $hit in their hats when requested vacate the runway when I deem to be unsafe after configured for landing.

I've never subscribed to the "Blind Obedience" doctine.

Perhaps it's a matter of perception? In my book when ATC states something along the lines of "if able, vacate at XX - traffic 3 miles behind", it is not a command but a request with the reason appended. If you're unable then so be it. Just remember that major airports have a lot of tin to move around and, guess what, pilots and airlines don't like delays! ATC do their best to keep the traffic moving but do not expect you to blindly comply and compromise safety in the process.

Once in the flare it's a little late for ATC ask for specific exit points in my opinion. "unable" is often the appropriate response. I don't want to make the following traffic go around either, so why not a nice "plan minimum time on the runway" while still far enough out to be helpful?

misd-agin

Love that! You beat me to it. More than once I've at 500 feet suggested to copilots to increase or decrease autobrake setting due to a change in conditions. Some seems totally perplexed...

If you can't fly an approach and ask the other pilot to turn a switch at the same time you're probably in the wrong profession.

There ya go. This is what happens when pilots haven't sat and passed the Indian Air Force medical examination. :}

India - Wet friction measurement
 

Wet friction measurement
 

tribo, perhaps you forgot to stress the point that this friction testing is for runway maintenance purposes only and thus has little or no relevance to flight operations except where the runway is declared ‘Slippery When Wet’.

A better operational reference giving a wide range of information on the problems of reduced friction operations are at:-
Winter Operations, Friction Measurements and Conditions for Friction Predictions - Executive Summary
Winter Operations, Friction Measurements and Conditions for Friction Predictions - Main Body
Winter Operations, Friction Measurements and Conditions for Friction Predictions - Appendices A-Z

Thanks for the informative links.
A design mu-value of .74 on a wet runway and rectification at .47? In your dreams!
But here we go again: On paper the Subcontinent is the safest, most advanced and well organized place in the world. A far cry from what you experience when going about your daily business (even when you have passed the Indian Class 1 medical :}).
Old buggers like captjns know when to say no and do the needful; the worrying part is that with an inexperienced pilot community and a culture, where the CP can single out individual pilots by running the flight recorder, only few pilots dare use their brain when conditions are deteriorating. If the CP says "min auto brake, idle reverse, reduced landing flaps, RET N7", so be it, even when it defies law of nature.
Result: Too many near-mishaps that you only hear about in the bar during layovers. Because the culture also dictates that nothing comes out in the open unless it cannot be swept under the carpet....:ugh:
T

I have not flown into BOM for a few years but RWY 27 was one of those runways that never seemed to have good braking action in the wet. Manila 06 was another one that use to worry me in heavy rain, watched a Fed-Ex DC-10 go off the end there. Also 27 BOM has a steep glide-path and unable to couple up the auto-pilot (heaven forbid).

Turkish airlines forgotten in the rating last week?
 

btw, I am surprised Turkish airways didn't make it in the Air Transport Rating Agency's list of the safest airlines last week having had a good look at the creme de la creme of safe airlines...
Anyway thank allah this ended well.

my views...
turkish normally operates a 330-200/300 into bombay and i was surprised to know it was a 340 that was involved in this incident...i feel this was a one off day that they got the 340....so maybe it was a crew who were coming into land for the first time into bombay...would have been holding for the runway to open after the scheduled runway closure for 30 min every night...must have landed and atc would have asked confirm able n7 (which they do with me everytime while i am abeam n7 and having no intention of vacating via that) ...they would have said no and would be feeling this guy wants us to vacate and looking for n8.....and in the confusion with the rain and a first time visit to a field and the rapid exit taxi lightings, they would have just taxiied into the grass thinking its the taxitrack....because that is exactly what it looks like...

as for the people doing reduced flap landings into bombay for fuel savings our company policy doesnt allow us for a reduced flap landing on glideslope > 3.15 degrees...(vabb being 3.3) and on wet/contaminated runways....

during my training days i would end up being too fast for n7 and too slow for n8 and then would here shouts of expediting by the atc......so now its idle reverse on a dry runway with very gentle braking for n8 always...i dont try for n7 unless there is a 10kt headwind and a very light 319....and for wet runway...i am not legally allowed to land...so......

I've found BOM 27 "challenging" in the dry, let alone wet, not least because there always seems to be an unreported tailwind. I use brakes 3/4, full flap and full reverse, plus make sure we're good up to 15kts tail on the perf...

Treat Bom with the utmost respect. The very operation into Bom has a few of the holes in the swiss cheese model already lined up. ATC, 3.3 degree glide slope, reverted rubber both ends, displaced threshold. Low level smoke/smog ( from the cooking fires in the nearby villages). Add to this heavy rain and gusting Xwinds, tankering in, and there are only one or two more layers of protection before an incident / accident. Going in there, wet and heavy the landing is industrial, autobrake 4 or more (777) full reverse and into manual braking. Bring it rapidly down to taxi speed - don't even think of "rolling out" to the end as just when you need the brakes towards the end of the rwy to slow you from 40kts you encounter the reverted rubber from 09 !!

Well that's my thoughts after 22 years of Bom ops. Who can remember crappers corner??

Being as a thy captain i have to correct one thing, Turkish airlines is using the A340/A330s as mix fleet and they are operated by the same crew members.so flying there for the first time is not the issue on this incident.

apologies...

No preblem:)

Used to operate to BOM when N7 was 'C' and N8 was 'D'. Operated there some 25 to 30 years ago for a good many years. NOTHING's changed in all these years except the taxiway designators and a new ils frequency. And in all of these years operating medium to heavies,I have never ever vacated via N7. Whether instructed or commanded by ATC. ALways used full length or N8.
In min ROT required operations,it is easier to use a lower AB setting and actually let the aircraft roll all the way close to the next exit while decelerating manually a tad harsher than normal so as to reduce runway occupancy time. Worked for me all these years.
Of course,now on the Super I don't operate to BOM and don't need to worry about exits. What with Brake to vacate taking over..
:cool:

captjns well said in my case 39 years . We must be old

Now, nostalgia ain't what it used to be. Who can forget that lovely aroma
wafting into the cabin, accompanied by that delightful view of the mass early
morning crap up there on the hill in full view of all and sundry at 27 holding point.

(Those weren't the days.....):{

<<I politely have the FO tell ATC to $hit in their hats>>

Nice to work with a professional!

Phantom - well there is one who can remember!! If ever there was a " long drop" that was it. And all the pax on the left hand side could see it!

Yep, off the departure end of runway 27. It wasn't that long ago...

Seems like someone skids off the long runway at BOM every couple of years or so. Remember when thieves stole the ILS antenna a while back?

Also, the dogs and pedestrians on the taxiway. Or getting a GPWS from Trombay Hill on the approach to 32. Incredible India!:)

Are you serious --- have you ever heard of putting your feet on the brakes --- ????
I know Bombay (I'm old fashioned) like the back of my hand ---- complying with ATC "requests" comes a long way behind operating the aircraft as it was meant to be operated ---- in the order of priorities.

Tootle pip!!

Was there in the early hours this morning, surprisingly, BOM ATC coping very well, we had no holding going in, 12 minutes taxi to runway 14 for dept... I did see as we were taxing out 0330 local a Turkish A340 landing on 14