Mr Diamond in Virgin Flight Deck LOS-LHR?
Anyone able to confirm or deny this growing rumour?
If it's true what might be the Company's/CAA reaction? |
True or not...don't stir it.
A colleague of mine was shown the door for a similar thing. :oh: |
The guy is worth £95 million! The prime minister was on-board, alongside high level diplomats. Highly doubt the captain hesitated to grant entry.
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What a fuss over nothing - who really cares? There are far more important flight safety issues which should be highlighted in the media which never see the light of day!
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Whilst most of you will say there is nothing wrong with this incident, it does prove that there is one rule for the wealthy and another for the rest of us. This is WRONG!!!!
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Whilst most of you will say there is nothing wrong with this incident, it does prove that there is one rule for the wealthy and another for the rest of us. Before all these banal security rules we used to have people such as air traffic controllers, firemen and even spouses, sons and daughters to visit the flightdeck - notice that the Daily Mail article states these rules only apply to UK registered a/c and/or those in UK airspace. Notwithstanding that individual airlines/states may have their own rules this is not the case universally. |
You beat me to it fireflybob. There might be the odd exception here and there but apart from UK and US carriers FD visit policy on most other airlines have pretty much remained what they were before 911. Common sense is applied. Let's remind ourselves that the 911 terrorists were not invited to the FD at the Captain's discretion.
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Not that easy on a US carrier!
Our new CEO was on one of our flights last week and during flight wanted to visit the cockpit. Nose was definitely out of joint when response came from cockpit that he could not due to the DHS rules. :sad:
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Flight deck entry
There is a problem here the rules say no entry- so why does one Capt think he can break the rules - and it begs belief he did it while the PM was on board!- I actually think its a good rule- if i worked in an office i wouldnt want every tom dick and harry walking in. Also what was the Virgin Captain thinking then making a PA saying Bob Diamond landed the plane...was he trying to make some sort of Joke to the PM? Sorry Pablo was sacked and this guy needs sacking too.:mad:
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if i worked in an office i wouldnt want every tom dick and harry walking in Of course the rules should be obeyed but it's a stupid rule that doesn't allow the Captain discretion, |
fireflybob - I totally agree with you!
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Damn right
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Just out of interest, which bit of legislation says that you can't have passengers on the jumpseat?
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Highly doubt the captain hesitated to grant entry. Not quite the same but, I made the foolish error of allowing some oik and his son to sit in for landing at a Greek island. At 50' said oik slapped me on shoulder and asked "Do'st tha know where tha's goin'?" |
Just out of interest, which bit of legislation says that you can't have passengers on the jumpseat? |
I would. |
The shame is that it used to be a lot of fun. Maybe a sign on the cockpit door to say that anyone with a beard and box cutters, exploding shoes or liquid bomb ingredients is not welcome.:ok:
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Family jump seats
I used to take my wife and family with me on flights quite often knowing I had control of two jump seats (+ bunks) to get them (or crew companions) home. Now the only option is a jump seat in the cabin...for 10 hours? Several times the cabin crew have introduced the "Captain's wife" to pax, more often than not in economy...pass the Stanley knife...broken bottle etc.! It's time to change this rule and get in line with the rest of the world. If the DfT are serious about flight deck safety, why are there still 2 toilets by the flight deck door of a B747?
Answer is always cost/commercial.:ugh: |
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In the 'good old days' when a visit to the sharp end was possible for SLF, it was usually not allowed during take-off or landing. Even if the passenger is some billionaire banker, you never know if he might go bonkers and try to crash the aircraft during landing when both pilots are busy.
IMHO the Captain was an idiot, especially to make his remark upon landing. I hope Mr Diamond will find him job when he gets fired. |
In the end, it is the PIC who decides who enters and who not in the cockpit. At least this is the logical way. Where I fly, I have absolute authority to decide who comes in. As a result, I recently had my wife on the jumseat for T/O. This proves again that the UK CAA nad the UK "security" mentality is full of crap.
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The DFT should be looking at flight crew FTL's, not wasting effort on Bob Diamond in a cockpit for landing.
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I hope Mr Diamond will find him job when he gets fired. Airbus, Barclays Bank and Republic Airways Holdings are among "several" strategic partners contributing to the nearly $1 billion in financing and near-term liquidity commitments raised by Star Alliance member US Airways. |
DFT rules prevent non authorised people from entering the flight deck.
Neither the CAA/Captain etc have the powers to overturn DFT rules. As Pablo Mason found out, the rules still apply to private charters! Contact us - Department for Transport :ugh: |
Banner towing was re-legalised following the "Happy Birthday Maggie" one was shown in the media with Maggie Thatcher waving as it went past, maybe a precedent, and pressure could be brought to bear after this to bring back Flight deck access with Captains permission
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Rebellion,you are correct and I fear that the captain could lose his job over this as the precedent has been set with pablo.Would he not have grounds to appeal if this were not the case.I hope I am proved wrong.:confused:
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If Virgin/Crew escape sanction for this blatant disregard for the law then I will take that as a precedent that I can invite anybody I fancy to my flight deck.
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And so????
Big deal Bengerman. The bad guys were never invited into Flight Decks. Don't you trust your own judgement? With your wife or kids, for example?
(You are not a Captain, nor an FO) |
Regardless of whether the 911 hijackers were invited into the cockpit or not. The law, is the law. On this specific issue the law is an ass. Everybody knows aircraft 'security', is window dressing only!
No doubt the Captain was the Director of Flight Operations, who scribbled himself a note immediately beforehand to allow this 'banker' access! And so the (bad) joke continues! Nontheless, the captain was a complete idiot to make such a 'landing' announcement with half the country's press on board! Pablo should apply to Virgin obviously! Either their security's sh1t, or they think the law is stupid. Which is it... |
I do feel sorry for you brits and americans.
In my country the commander is still the one who has the final word. |
The main crime here, if there is one, is that it looks like the aircraft commander missed an opportunity to demonstrate to the PM, in person, the lack of commonsense surrounding the UK rules over flight deck access....
He'd have done all of us a favour if he'd said "no". |
it wouldn't even occur to me to say yes, if the PM had asked for the j/s the answer would still have been no. Maybe the only thing the Virgin captain did wrong, was the silly announcement. It should be kept low profile. And no, he should not be sacked. I have been on the f/d many times over recent years, only because the captain or FO has been a personel friend, and even then I had to abide with regulations about not being there in UK airspace. So, the president of the USA should not be allowed to visit the cockpit on Airforce 1..? |
So, the president of the USA should not be allowed to visit the cockpit on Airforce 1. In the UK or on the UK reg, the answer should have been no. If the PM or his friends want to sit on jumpseats then they can buy their own aircraft, they're rich enough! |
Airforce 1 is not a commercial aircraft and thus not bound by these rules If the PM or his friends want to sit on jumpseats then they can buy their own aircraft, they're rich enough! |
Respect where it is due, he might run the country but he is not exempt from its laws and he is certainly not in charge of the aircraft.
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Daysleeper is ample proof that if you tell the people enough times, they will eventually become convinced of the new "reality." In this case the commander will be lucky to retain his position and the airline will probably be fined. |
I do feel sorry for you brits and americans. In my country the commander is still the one who has the final word. Alas, I fear it has gone too far now and, pending a full blown revolution, things will continue to deteriorate since the majority of the herd have lost all ability to be capable of original thought. Ok it may have been imprudent for the Commander to make the comments on the PA but in the great scheme of things I don't see his actions as a big issue. I'd rather have someone up the sharp end who is capable of objective thought rather than some automaton who accepts everything at face value. Seems crazy that I can't take my son on the flightdeck but someone who has been with the company for a couple of weeks can do so after superficial security checks! |
rules laws regulations!!!!
there was a man from a long time ago that said something about the spirit of the law being more important than the letter of the law.
and i think he also said something like; the one who has no fault, let them cast the first stone. i find that works in aircraft quite well. |
I have yet to meet a Captain who thinks that the rules over flight deck access are anything other than crackpot equally I have yet to meet a Captain who would disregard the rule without approval from the flight ops director, it may well turn out that the Virgin skipper contacted his/her FOD on HF to request such authority, if so he's in the clear, if not I suspect he/she is in trouble.
I would love to have the PM on the flight deck( this one not the last) but the answer would still be no, the president of the US is the commander in chief of their armed forces and within reason can o pretty much what he wants, the last one did a carrier land as co pilot if I recall Certain employees may travel on the FD but only on authorised fam: flights I have herd of a good few flight deck who fly for a certain Irish airline often jump seats when flight is full and trying to get home they also avoids check in and APD by travelling in uniform via crew channel, which in my view breaks at least three rules, FD access , use of airport ID when not on duty, evasion of HMRC APD fee's in other words just like the old days! |
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