In the 'good old days' when a visit to the sharp end was possible for SLF, it was usually not allowed during take-off or landing. Even if the passenger is some billionaire banker, you never know if he might go bonkers and try to crash the aircraft during landing when both pilots are busy.

IMHO the Captain was an idiot, especially to make his remark upon landing. I hope Mr Diamond will find him job when he gets fired.

In the end, it is the PIC who decides who enters and who not in the cockpit. At least this is the logical way. Where I fly, I have absolute authority to decide who comes in. As a result, I recently had my wife on the jumseat for T/O. This proves again that the UK CAA nad the UK "security" mentality is full of crap.

The DFT should be looking at flight crew FTL's, not wasting effort on Bob Diamond in a cockpit for landing.

He'll certainly be well placed to do it being CEO of Barclays...

DFT rules prevent non authorised people from entering the flight deck.

Neither the CAA/Captain etc have the powers to overturn DFT rules.

As Pablo Mason found out, the rules still apply to private charters!

Contact us - Department for Transport

:ugh:

Banner towing was re-legalised following the "Happy Birthday Maggie" one was shown in the media with Maggie Thatcher waving as it went past, maybe a precedent, and pressure could be brought to bear after this to bring back Flight deck access with Captains permission

Rebellion,you are correct and I fear that the captain could lose his job over this as the precedent has been set with pablo.Would he not have grounds to appeal if this were not the case.I hope I am proved wrong.:confused:

If Virgin/Crew escape sanction for this blatant disregard for the law then I will take that as a precedent that I can invite anybody I fancy to my flight deck.

And so????
 

Big deal Bengerman. The bad guys were never invited into Flight Decks. Don't you trust your own judgement? With your wife or kids, for example?
(You are not a Captain, nor an FO)

Regardless of whether the 911 hijackers were invited into the cockpit or not. The law, is the law. On this specific issue the law is an ass. Everybody knows aircraft 'security', is window dressing only!

No doubt the Captain was the Director of Flight Operations, who scribbled himself a note immediately beforehand to allow this 'banker' access!

And so the (bad) joke continues!

Nontheless, the captain was a complete idiot to make such a 'landing' announcement with half the country's press on board!

Pablo should apply to Virgin obviously! Either their security's sh1t, or they think the law is stupid. Which is it...

I do feel sorry for you brits and americans.
In my country the commander is still the one who has the final word.

The main crime here, if there is one, is that it looks like the aircraft commander missed an opportunity to demonstrate to the PM, in person, the lack of commonsense surrounding the UK rules over flight deck access....

He'd have done all of us a favour if he'd said "no".

That is the most ridiculous and stupidly absurd thing I have ever heard ! He is the PRIME MINISTER, and it would be an honour for any airline to have him take the time to visit the guys up front. I don't think the rules are so dumbfoundedly rigid that they take into account people of that stature. Captains have been graced with an above average quota of inteligence I'd like to believe, and as such, it should be up to their descretion to allow a family member or famous personality that is well above suspicion in the cockpit. The Pablo Mason thing, which I only just found out from here, was a discrace. I hope he wins his case. At the very worst, if his company were so strict on the regulations, a quiet word with him later saying, "we prefer if you didn't next time please...." , and leave it at that. But, to sack someone like that for something so trivial, shows, in my opinion, what :mad: some companies can be. Anyone know whats happened with his case ?
Maybe the only thing the Virgin captain did wrong, was the silly announcement. It should be kept low profile. And no, he should not be sacked.
I have been on the f/d many times over recent years, only because the captain or FO has been a personel friend, and even then I had to abide with regulations about not being there in UK airspace.
So, the president of the USA should not be allowed to visit the cockpit on Airforce 1..?

Airforce 1 is not a commercial aircraft and thus not bound by these rules, so the President can do what he likes.

In the UK or on the UK reg, the answer should have been no. If the PM or his friends want to sit on jumpseats then they can buy their own aircraft, they're rich enough!

Yes, but a looney bin in a cockpit is just as dangerous in any cockpit wether or not it is commercial or private or whatever.


Have you seeked medical advise for that stiff back problem ? He is the PM, and deserves more respect than what you have afforded him.

Respect where it is due, he might run the country but he is not exempt from its laws and he is certainly not in charge of the aircraft.

I'm not saying if the system is right or wrong, reasonable or not, merely that these are the rules we have and that breaking those rules, no matter how well intentioned, leaves you and your employer liable for consequences.

In this case the commander will be lucky to retain his position and the airline will probably be fined.

aguadalte, you have it in one here! The lunatics are now running the asylums in the UK hiding behind banal and draconian edicts allegedly to protect it's poor citizens from "terrorism" whereas the biggest threat is people blindingly following a set of arbitrary "rules" without really thinking "does this make sense?" (Remember a certain regime years ago where when people were asked "why?" they replied "ve were just following orders".)

Alas, I fear it has gone too far now and, pending a full blown revolution, things will continue to deteriorate since the majority of the herd have lost all ability to be capable of original thought.

Ok it may have been imprudent for the Commander to make the comments on the PA but in the great scheme of things I don't see his actions as a big issue. I'd rather have someone up the sharp end who is capable of objective thought rather than some automaton who accepts everything at face value.

Seems crazy that I can't take my son on the flightdeck but someone who has been with the company for a couple of weeks can do so after superficial security checks!

rules laws regulations!!!!
 

there was a man from a long time ago that said something about the spirit of the law being more important than the letter of the law.

and i think he also said something like; the one who has no fault, let them cast the first stone.

i find that works in aircraft quite well.

I have yet to meet a Captain who thinks that the rules over flight deck access are anything other than crackpot equally I have yet to meet a Captain who would disregard the rule without approval from the flight ops director, it may well turn out that the Virgin skipper contacted his/her FOD on HF to request such authority, if so he's in the clear, if not I suspect he/she is in trouble.

I would love to have the PM on the flight deck( this one not the last) but the answer would still be no, the president of the US is the commander in chief of their armed forces and within reason can o pretty much what he wants, the last one did a carrier land as co pilot if I recall

Certain employees may travel on the FD but only on authorised fam: flights

I have herd of a good few flight deck who fly for a certain Irish airline often jump seats when flight is full and trying to get home they also avoids check in and APD by travelling in uniform via crew channel, which in my view breaks at least three rules, FD access , use of airport ID when not on duty, evasion of HMRC APD fee's in other words just like the old days!